Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees
Thursday, 14 March 2013
Public Accounts Committee
2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter 21 – Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 22 – Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 23 – Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Social Insurance Fund – Annual Accounts 2011
10:25 am
Deputy Seán Fleming:
Ms O'Donoghue and her colleagues are very welcome. I thank her for the opening statement. I glanced at it last night and I want to deal with a couple of specific aspects in the Department's budget for the year we are discussing.
The first issue which is probably the most relevant to many people in light of the Government's announcement yesterday, is that of the mortgage interest supplement. As Ms O'Donoghue is aware, 94,000 people have been in mortgage arrears for over 90 days. In total, 150,000 people are in mortgage arrears to some extent. The latter figure has doubled in the last two years. The Department of Social Protection is the only direct line Department that helps people with mortgage difficulties through the mortgage interest supplement. I understand that the departmental Estimate for mortgage interest supplement payments in 2011 was €77,246,000. I also understand that the Estimate for 2013 under that heading is €41,820,000. That is a reduction of 46%. The Department's overall Estimate - based on the draft Estimates published on budget day and the revised Estimates to be published on 21 March - indicates a possible reduction of approximately 2%. However, I do not understand why Ms O'Donoghue's Department has a 25% cut in mortgage interest supplement payments this year alone, on top of the cuts in the previous year, and almost a 50% cut under that heading, even though the Government says that area is the number one priority.
Ms O'Donoghue might tell me her Department's role in light of yesterday's announcements by Ministers and the regulator. Today, we are looking at whether the Government is doing what it says it will do. The only tangible issue concerning the Government and the Department of Social Protection, when it comes to dealing with those in mortgage arrears, is a massive cut in the mortgage interest supplement.
Major changes were made in the Social Welfare Bill last year to people's eligibility for mortgage interest supplement payments. Can Ms O'Donoghue say how many people were in receipt of the mortgage interest supplement in 2011, as well as the current number in receipt of it? More importantly, how many new people have been put on the mortgage interest supplement payment since the beginning of this year, and especially since last July when the Department made those changes in the Social Welfare Bill? Those changes seem to run counter to everything that is being said. We are trying to help people in mortgage arrears, yet the one Department with a role in this matter has halved its budget in this area over the past two years.
I would like Ms O'Donoghue to answer those specific questions concerning numbers, amounts, cuts, rule changes and how difficult the situation is. She should also explain her Department's role with the financial regulator who deals with the same banks to which she provides the mortgage interest supplement. She should also outline the discussions she has been having with the regulator, specifically concerning yesterday's announcement, so that we can see the overall joined-up approach by Government and her Department's role in this.
I would have thought that if one group was to get some relief from expenditure cuts, it should be those in mortgage arrears. I have posed a number of questions about this specific issue, which the public is very concerned about, so perhaps Ms O'Donoghue can discuss those issues.