Mr. Paul Murphy, MEP:

People's lives are being destroyed in Greece. The economy is being destroyed, society is being torn up and there is a failed state within Europe. Moreover, in my opinion, if we continue with the same austerity policies Greece offers a certain picture of where we are heading. It is where we will be or contains elements of where we will be in one or two years' time and so on.

Fourth, members have asked whether German taxpayers should continue to pay for the crisis. German taxpayers are not paying for people in Greece, Portugal, Ireland or Spain but are paying for German banks. It is a trick by the German establishment. It precisely is propaganda by the German establishment to state Germany is bailing out the lazy Greeks and lazy Spanish, as well as the not so lazy Irish, who are doing a good job, are good pupils, etc. While there is opposition within Germany to the idea of bailing out German banks, it is a trick to try to ensure there is not more opposition. I do not believe the German taxpayers should pay for it either. One reason we are in this crisis and for the fundamental imbalance in the European Union between northern Europe, primarily represented by Germany, and southern Europe, that is, the so-called PIGS economies, is because wages were suppressed in Germany from the time of the Schröder Government. That SPD Government suppressed wages in Germany with the likes of the Hartz IV reforms and the Agenda 2010 initiative. Such suppressed wages meant that Germany won the race to the bottom with regard to who would be most competitive within the eurozone, because all were trapped together with no opportunity for internal devaluation. This is one reason for the imbalance within the eurozone and I am in favour of a struggle by German workers to refuse to pay for those debts and to fight for higher wages and better conditions.

As for whether the debate on austerity has moved on in the European Union, the answer is "No". I acknowledge the debate at the level of the international thinkers for capitalism, the economists, has moved on. People are recognising that even within the framework of capitalism, austerity at all times might not be the best possible solution, as evidenced by the IMF in the debate on the multipliers. However, members should read the response to the IMF, written last week by Commissioner Rehn, on the question of the multipliers. It was a personal response that simply dismisses everything the IMF has stated about the multipliers and states we must continue on and on. The vast majority of the Commissioners are real ideological neo-liberals who are committed to this. They think it will work and it is working for the people who they actually represent. As to whether I believe in the European Union, I believe it exists.