Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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As a matter of information, how many of the 4,000 local shops which were mentioned are garage forecourt shops? This information would give us a sense of where the sector is surviving. I mentioned ugly fruit, and food wastage is a serious issue. The point I was trying to make is that certain stories are more media friendly than others and not that one issue is more important than another. Where two stories are of equal importance sometimes one is picked up because it contains a word which captures the public mind.

I accept that because the sector represented by the witnesses is independent its cost base is higher which means higher prices. Perhaps the witnesses do not have the answer, but we are puzzled because a big multinational trading on both islands can charge one price on one part of this island and a significantly different price in another. They do not have huge cost differences.

We want to make it clear that anybody who is in business is doing so to make money and this is fair and we have no argument with it. We are concerned that if there is a perpetual squeeze, and we know producer margins have decreased, then for a producer to get a fair price the consumer will have to pay. This is not so much the case in the witnesses' sector because I accept none of them is making huge profits. We are considering the entire sector and the witnesses are the first to come before us. A total of 70% of the sector is not represented by the witnesses and it is fair to ask if a supplier is being squeezed to make products cheaper for consumers how much is the retail sector making and to what extent is the consumer the ultimate beneficiary of the squeeze. As the witnesses articulately put it, how much of this is caused by quality. We will not know until the entire beefburger fiasco is fully and independently investigated how much was ultimately caused by the price squeeze on processors. I cannot prove it, but there seems to be much talk that the big multiples and wholesalers are putting a huge price squeeze on processors, who are always looking for cheaper inputs to try to meet the demands of the wholesalers and the big multiples. It is fine if the witnesses do not have views on these issues, but we are trying to delve into these matters to find out about these relationships and their end results. The witnesses represent 30% of the sector, which is more fragmented, and we fully accept they are not the big force in the market.

I was very interested to hear what the witnesses said about small food producers and the lack of quality and consistency. In a previous life through the Leader programme we paid a full-time small food co-ordinator to help small food producers reach the standards mentioned by the witnesses such as delivering on time and quality standards. Has there been an improvement in the ten years for which it has existed? West Cork was mentioned. The Fuchsia brand was a Leader brand, and the Department I used to head had a big role in encouraging it. We saw it as a blue ribbon approach, with a Leader company creating standards and a brand one could stand over and guaranteeing to retailers they would have consistent quality. What are the views of the witnesses on how producers can increase penetration of these high-quality niche brands being produced throughout the country?

We have moved some of the way in the past ten years, but, while that is certainly what I am hearing from the sector, there is still a long way to go. I can remember huge arguments taking place with the producers in regard to the HACCP and we worked with them by pointing out that the HACCP was their protection and that, if they did it right, they would be covered in terms of food scares and so on. We all know of the dangers associated with a food scare. I would be interested to know that they have got their act together as a sector in which there is a disproportionate level of employment for the amount produced because it is a niche product.