Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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The next part of the meeting involves a discussion with the chairman designate of the Port of Cork, Mr. John Mullins, on the approach he will take in his proposed new role and his views on the challenges facing the port. Members will be aware of the Government's decision of May 2011 that put new arrangements in place for the appointment of persons to State boards and bodies. The joint committee welcomes the opportunity to meet the chairman designate to hear his views. We trust this will provide greater transparency in the process of making appointments to State boards and bodies.

On behalf of the committee, I welcome Mr. Mullins. I draw to his attention the fact that, by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. However, if they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against a person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. I also advise Mr. Mullins that the opening statements he has submitted to the committee will be published on its website after the meeting. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I invite Mr. Mullins to make his opening statement, following which members will ask questions.

Mr. John Mullins:

Go raibh maith agaibh go léir as an seans labhairt libh ar maidin. I very much appreciate the opportunity to present my credentials and vision for the Port of Cork at this session. I will first introduce myself to the committee and then present the salient challenges and opportunities facing my intended stewardship of the board of the Port of Cork. I was born in Cork in 1968 in the south inner city to Patrick and Maureen Mullins. My father spent his life as a painter-decorator for Cork City Council and my mother was well occupied with five boys of whom I am the eldest. I was educated in North Monastery primary and secondary schools and then went on to study electrical engineering in University College Cork. I completed a bachelor's degree in 1989 and was awarded graduate of the year in UCC in 1989. I also studied a master's degree in electrical engineering in UCC. In 1997, I graduated from the Smurfit Business School in UCD with a first class honours MBA.

I started my career with the ESB and am very thankful for the very fine career foundation I received there. I also worked as a senior consultant in PricewaterhouseCoopers Consulting in London specialising in the communications, energy, water and transport division. In 2000, I returned to Ireland to work with ESB International where I led projects in Poland and project-managed and commercially negotiated the ESB's largest external investment in Amorebieta in the Basque region. In 2002, I joined NTR plc and worked with all of the fledgling companies in the group, the toll roads company, Greenstar, Celtic Anglian Water, Bioverda and because of my background, Airtricity.

I left NTR in 2007 to take up the position of chief executive officer in Bord Gáis Éireann. My time in Bord Gáis Éireann was immensely enjoyable and challenging and my period there is marked by significant diversification of the company. BGE is now a serious force in electricity as well as gas through the success of the "Big Switch" campaign and investments of more than €1 billion in power plant of conventional and renewable types. In my time in BGE, the company successfully raised up to €2 billion in funding facilities in an unprecedented time. I believe my experience in international infrastructure and financing can bring some benefit to the Port of Cork. My most significant achievement was the awarding in 2012 of the "Great Place to Work" award to BGE.

I left BGE at the end of last year and am currently reshaping an international solar business for capitalisation before the summer for international expansion in European and US markets.

I am a fellow of Engineers Ireland, and hold board positions with the Tyndall Institute, UCC, COPE Foundation and am chairman of the bereavement charity, Anamcara. I am currently President of the Cork Chamber of Commerce, a role I will finish in seven weeks.

I was very much aware growing up of the importance of the Port of Cork as my mother grew up close to the docklands. The historical significance of the port to traditional and modern exports cannot be understated. This infrastructure is a vital cog to the regional and national economy. The region has a significant maritime history whether it be naval, commercial or, regrettably, the export of our people from Cobh. The harbour is a phenomenal leisure and tourism resource as well. As President of the Cork Chamber of Commerce, I am very much minded of the link with the Chamber of Commerce and the port as the chamber was established on the strength of trade and shipping in the region. The committee may have heard of the term "merchant princes of Cork", a term much used for those who used the port. The new merchant princes of Cork are large multinationals, indigenous and agri-food exporters. I am not a merchant prince.

The Port of Cork has a very strong management team under the capable hands of its chief executive, Brendan Keating. The port has successfully opened up new trading avenues for the region. The port boasts unique deep-water facilities which facilitate larger vessels, with economy of scale and world shipping driving ports to facilitate larger ships. We must remind ourselves that 90% of trade by volume is achieved through ports such as Cork.

Recent achievements at the port include a new weekly transatlantic container service, the first lo-lo deep sea service in Ireland; a new Arkady bulk store for agri-food products at Ringaskiddy; winning the servicing of the ExxonMobil exploration off our coast; and the achievement of ISO14001, OHSAS 18001 and IPSEM accreditations. The introduction of the Maersk service represented a €3.5 million investment, providing a strategic customer in to the future. It is recognition of Cork's competitive advantage in location and deep-water vessel access and berthing.

In general, the issues facing this State company at this time are no different to those encountered by other State companies. I am very much aware that the port must continue the ongoing drive for continuous improvement, generating greater efficiencies and improving quality of service. This is crucial to improve competitiveness of our exports and imports. The port has considerable financial needs but these can only be achieved through an increase in revenues and improvement in profitability. Consequently, a higher dividend can be offered to the Exchequer.

There is an increasing need for varied and appropriate quality services in a maritime world of changing dynamics, with the drive for globalisation, port-centric activities and integrated logistics chains. Looking forward, the limitations of existing lo-lo facilities in ship size and current urban location at Tivoli will need to be addressed by relocating such services further down the harbour. The Port of Cork is very much in favour of the Cork docklands redevelopment and we intend to play a full role in its achievement. The population of Cork city has declined over the past decade and the development of the docklands will right those statistics.

Ringaskiddy redevelopment will be a key strategic pillar during my stewardship of the company. The port obtained a previous refusal for Oyster Bank and a multipurpose terminal in 2008. A review of this strategy took place in 2010 and a strengthening of the planning framework has been achieved. A new planning application is in hand and the port will finalise pre-planning discussions with An Bord Pleanála shortly. We are confident that the rail and traffic issues underlined in the previous refusal can now be addressed.

Cobh is synonymous with much of the harbour's history and the history of the Titanic is quite a draw for the town. Cobh now boasts Ireland's only dedicated cruise terminal, where vessels up to 340 metres in length can be accommodated. In 2012, 57 cruise liners brought more than 100,000 passengers to the region and the port expects to surpass that target this year. The port will further invest in these facilities with the assistance of external support. The combination of the Spike Island, Cobh's Titanic links and the harbour forts represents a unique tourism opportunity for the region. The port is involved with this vision and believes this new experience would be very complementary to cruise traffic. Access points across the harbour are now being investigated.

In my time in BGE, I pioneered investments in marine energy sources such as tidal and wave. I am pleased to say that the land swap with the IDA and UCC is underway in the creation of IMERC in Ringaskiddy. The IMERC will be a world class facility for research, offshore energy and maritime clusters. There are considerable synergies between this development and the port.

The old Marino Point IFI site has been identified as a supplementary site, if it can be acquired, to complement new facilities in Ringaskiddy. The site has rail connectivity so demand for rail freight, if it arises, can be met. It also has an existing jetty with 10 metres of draft with access and berthage. Seveso activity on site offers the opportunity to facilitate relocation of other Seveso sites from Tivoli.

More than 9 million tonnes of freight passed through the port in 2012, representing 19% of the total nationally. The oil refinery accounts for 60% of the freight and 30% of the income of the port. Whitegate is a critical account to the Port of Cork and potentially nationally with the onset of oil exploration and further refining at the port.

Turnover in 2011 was in excess of €21 million and we expect a marginal improvement for 2012. Profits reported for 2011 were €838,000 and, again, the port expects an improvement in 2012 outturn. In 2009, a rationalization programme was implemented at the port that will run until 2015. We expect an incremental €1 million addition to the bottom line from that period onwards.

My priorities as chairman will be to continue growth at the Port of Cork through renewed competitiveness, investment and profitability for the long term, to significantly reshape port infrastructure for a long term future, and to assist regional economic development, not just in Cork but across Munster and south Leinster, to the fullest in the docklands development, promotion of tourism, maritime research and industrial expansion.

I look forward to taking up my duties and doing the very best for the citizens of the country.

Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Mullins for that outline of his vision for the future of the Pork of Cork. Members will have many questions but for clarification, I saw some reports on proposals not to appoint a new board for Bantry Harbour. Can Mr. Mullins elaborate on that? There are some issues there that need to be clarified. What is Mr. Mullins's vision for Bantry?

Mr. John Mullins:

I am familiar with infrastructure in regional locations across the country and the importance of community engagement, which is vital here. The Minister is minded to go through a consultation process on Bantry being amalgamated with the Port of Cork and we are at the start of that process. As incoming chairman, I am more than willing, and I know CEO Brendan Keating is more than willing, to meet with local concerns and the existing harbour commissioners to ensure that whatever happens, Bantry does not suffer in that transfer.

From my perspective, infrastructure enhancement for further cruise traffic into west Cork is vitally important for tourism in the region. That will be part of the agenda that will be up for discussion, although clearly I do not want to get into that discussion now. As I engage with Deputy Harrington and Senator O'Donovan from the region, I will listen to what they have to say and be mindful of putting in a place a construct that meets all requirements.

Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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So Mr. Mullins will work with them?

Mr. John Mullins:

Absolutely. My history in business shows that I am a pragmatist and not ideologically driven.

Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Mullins for that clarification.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Mr. Mullins for his presentation. It is clear he has the energy and drive to take on this role. I have no objection to his joining the ranks of the merchant princes of Cork in his new role and wish him well in that regard.

There are proposals to relocate the harbour's activity and we heard An Bord Pleanála had decided adversely on the previous proposal. Is Mr. Mullins confident he can get this through now?

The various stakeholders, residents and so forth, are being consulted. One of the main grounds for refusing the previous proposal was the absence of a railway line in the port. It is highly unlikely that this issue will be resolved to the satisfaction of An Bord Pleanála any time soon given the moneys available for investment. At the time the planning application was refused, I questioned the need for a railway line on the basis that only a small volume of freight is moved by rail. The company depends heavily on the proposed relocation if it is to achieve Cork Harbour's potential for growth. I ask Mr. Mullins to expand a little on the work the Port of Cork has done on this issue.

I have a number of standard questions. Is Mr. Mullins or has he ever been a member of a political party? Has he ever sought electoral office?

Mr. John Mullins:

The Deputy knows the answers to those questions.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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They are standard questions.

Mr. John Mullins:

The information is in the public domain and one only needs to carry out a Google search to find it. I have fundamentally nothing to hide and will answer the Deputy's questions.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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It is not a crime to be a member of a political party.

Mr. John Mullins:

I am not here on the basis of my history in that regard.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I accept that and I am not suggesting otherwise.

Mr. John Mullins:

As Deputy Dooley will be aware, I had an involvement with the Fine Gael Party many years ago as president of Young Fine Gael. In 2002, I also ran unsuccessfully for the Dáil, which was, thankfully, the best thing that ever happened to me.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Mr. Mullins is lucky.

Mr. John Mullins:

I have not been a member of Fine Gael for six years because I handed in my card when I learned I was about to become chief executive of An Bord Gáis. I hope members of political parties who have dealt with me during my tenure in An Bord Gáis will say I dealt with people in a very fair manner. I do not have anything to hide in that regard and I wish to engage equally with all political parties and community interests.

The Deputy raises a valid point about rail freight in which, as he is aware, we have not had any incremental investment. On the contrary, we have divestment from the sector for many years. In a sense, the planning framework within which the previous planning application was submitted was based on different expectations regarding the importance of rail freight as a means of avoiding road transport. As members are aware, a very good motorway network has been developed in recent years and the majority of our tonnages are being transported by road rather than rail. That is not to say it is a good or bad thing that we are in that position. From a shipping point of view, the turning space at Tivoli Docks is not sufficient for the size of the ships that are needed. While it was appropriate in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, it is not appropriate for this century and we will have to look at better turning spaces.

Adjustments have been proposed in the planning framework nationally and I hope An Bord Pleanála will be minded of these directions which have been issued by the Oireachtas and Government.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Has Mr. Mullins considered a plan B?

Mr. John Mullins:

I mentioned Marino Point, for example, as an option for rail freight. It has a higher berthage and better potential in terms of turning space. While that is clearly an opportunity, if we want to have a long-term asset base, Ringaskiddy and that entire bank area is the most ideal location for a modern, deep water port.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I wish Mr. Mullins the best of luck.

Noel Harrington (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the chairman designate for the Port of Cork, Mr. Mullins, and his appointment. We should pay tribute to the outgoing chairman, Mr. Dermot O'Mahony, under whose stewardship the port has developed and significantly expanded, including through cruise ship traffic. I am pleased Mr. Mullins will continue with Mr. O'Mahony's work in the port, including the provision of new facilities in Cobh. We are approaching the point where it may no longer be possible to get more without investing in further facilities. Perhaps that option will be explored.

On the development of Cork Harbour, the proposal to relocate must be welcomed and supported by the entire province of Munster. At some point, the volume of imports and exports coming through the Port of Cork will reach a critical mass and the region will suffer unless the relocation to the south harbour proceeds. This is an opportune time to address this issue given the likelihood of an upturn in traffic. I welcome Mullins's comments that the Port of Cork will deal with the issue. Will he confirm that the planning process will commence shortly?

How does Mr. Mullins intend to learn from the experience of the development of the Dublin docklands? I refer both to the achievements and mistakes made in Dublin. How could they be utilised or avoided, as the case may be, for the Cork Harbour experience?

Mr. Mullins referred briefly to refining. A question mark hangs over the future of the Whitegate refinery. Ireland needs to have a refining capacity and a decision must be taken on this issue within months. Does Mr. Mullins have an opinion on the matter?

The Chairman stole my thunder on the issue of Bantry Bay. I am pleased he expressed such interest in Bantry Harbour port. His breadth of knowledge is fascinating. I welcome Mr. Mullins's comments in that regard. While the proposal is contentious, it is worth noting the significant potential it offers Bantry Harbour. I welcome the decision to enter into a consultation process. This proposed development gives us an idea of the phenomenal reach of the Port of Cork, not only in terms of the maritime sector of County Cork, but as far inland as counties Kilkenny and Tipperary. Mr. Mullins is assuming an important position in a large company which has a major impact on the commercial and economic life of the region.

Cork does not have a passenger link to the United Kingdom. The closure of the Cork-Swansea ferry link has had a negative impact on tourism in the south west region. I ask Mr. Mullins to comment. The Port of Cork has been supportive of efforts to reinstate the Cork-Swansea link and I compliment its operations manager, Mr. Michael McCarthy, on everything he has done on this issue. While I am aware the Port of Cork is committed to reinstating the link, it would be helpful to have this support on record.

Anyone who uses a resource such as the Port of Cork and Cork Harbour will inevitably encounter a conflict between commercial, leisure and fisheries interests and the industrial traffic that has become such a feature of the harbour. I assume Mr. Mullins is prepared to deal with much of this conflict that will arise during his tenure.

Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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I thank Mr. Mullins for attending. He has an impressive curriculum vitae and I assume from his presentation that he has the energy, enthusiasm and interest to perform this task. Does he have any continuing involvement in one or more of the companies referred to on his curriculum vitae?

Is there a potential for a conflict of interest in any of them? How much time does Mr. Mullins propose to spend initially at least as chairman of the Port of Cork?

I have no doubt the phrase "securing greater efficiencies" will appear in the work programme over the next 12 to 24 months. What is Mr. Mullins's experience of dealing with downsizing and staff redundancies and redeployment? How has he approached these issues?

I am delighted that the operation of the port embraces corporate social responsibility. We have argued a local social responsibility clause is needed in public service contracts and operations. If it is an objective of Government and the public service to reduce unemployment, are there national or EU legislative impediments to doing so?

A number of people claim, although I do not agree, that the public service way the ports and harbours are run stifles their development and they should be run along more commercial lines. What are Mr. Mullins's views on that?

I am interested in his experience of renewable energy projects and whether he believes port facilities could be used to promote such projects? Does he consider this to be part of his brief?

Mr. John Mullins:

I will deal with Deputy Harrington's questions first. I join him in congratulating my friend, Dermot O'Mahony, on a fantastic tenure as chairman of the port.

On the cruise liner side, we are probably talking about minor incremental investment in Cobh. Bantry will quite clearly come up in the consultation process but we should probably acknowledge the fact that, at the world cruise liner conference last year, Cobh won the awards for the best shore side welcome and best tour guides. It is an award winning location and that is why growth happened. Irish hospitality is experienced from the get go at Cobh terminal and, hopefully, that will continue. The Port of Cork will do its utmost to give that Irish welcome directly to any liner that comes in.

I would rather not go into the whys and wherefores of the Dublin docklands development. If one wants a lesson on how not to approach the Cork docklands, that is probably one. My perspective on this is that there are few spaces within Cork city for development in the future. The port area is a remnant of the 1980s industrial base in the Cork region. We are a different region today and, regrettably, all our industry is in a ribbon around the city. We do not have enough urban planning optimisation or investment in the centre of the city going right out to Pairc Úi Chaoimh and there is an opportunity to begin with on the north side of the docks. The reversal of Kent Station on to Horgan's Quay and the potential for development of the north docks area as the start of the overall docklands development is an opportunity. Based on my experience on the chamber of commerce, a reduction in space for commercial and industrial activity has begun to arise. That has been commented on by the IDA and so on generally but that is no different in the Cork region and the docklands area to address employment opportunities.

Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Is that larger spaces?

Mr. John Mullins:

Yes, large office spaces are not available. Apple is building its own site currently and the most recent large development of 200,000 sq. ft. is practically fully tenanted at Mahon Point. There has been a delay in development and a lack of development when one considers the demographic growth that all our urban areas will go through in the future. The difficulty with that is, from a transport of view, we are allowing more commuter traffic within urban areas and public transport from outside the city bounds rather than within. From a transport policy perspective, therefore, as well as being an opportunity for the Port of Cork, the development of the north docks and progressively each of the phases that will be presented to a Cabinet sub-committee over the next while will be a major development. Clearly, somebody has to take responsibility for the stewardship of that and that needs to be looked at. As chairman designate, I will play my part, as will the chief executive officer, in facilitating what needs to be facilitated for the urban regeneration of the city.

With regard to Whitegate refinery, I have a deep energy background. Thankfully, during my time, we developed a 400 MW power plant on the site and the port is right next door to it. The refinery, from a European point of view, is seen as of suboptimal size but if we had no refinery, we would be up there with Luxembourg as the only European country without a refinery. NORA is a big issue in brief of the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, but from a national security point of view, I would have deep concerns if we did not have indigenous refining in the country. There is an opportunity, particularly in the context of the vessels leaving Cork Harbour currently, to carry out seismic testing and engage in drilling in Barryroe, to refine that product in Whitegate into the future. I would recommend that no collapsing decision with respect to the refinery, strategic or otherwise, should be made until we understand exactly what opportunities are there in the oil industry. However, from a Port of Cork perspective, I have outlined that if the refinery closed, 30% of the port's income would disappear, which would put pressure on it as a commercial entity. That is a critical dimension and I made this point to the Minister in my initial meeting with him.

As president of the chamber of commerce, we got involved in the passenger link process. All the stakeholders in Cork city and county and south Kerry were interested in this because Killarney would benefit as much as anywhere else from the link. As I understand it, the reality is that the bread and butter of a ferry is its freight traffic and, regrettably, that was not coming to pass. Rosslare is still seen, with tachometers and European regulations, as an option rather than using a ten-hour journey to Swansea from Cork. It also needs to be understood that perishable goods need to get to their markets as quickly as possible and that is another key dimension. If another such investment is pending, the Port of Cork will look at that. I welcome what the Deputy said about Michael McCarthy. The port put a great deal of its own investment into the Fastnet line. One of the opportunities being considered by the port is the feasibility of a direct link to northern Spain, which could also open up a new market for produce. As long as there is a Rosslare-Pembroke service with a short journey time, it will be difficult to compete on freight.

The Deputy referred to a conflict regarding commercial traffic. The systems operated in the port are much more sophisticated now and the asset management systems have improved immeasurably. The website shows the placement of every vessel in the harbour in real time. That is the level of information technology that has been invested in at the port. The details of the ships are available online.

That is an example of how the pilotage is managed in the port. I think I have addressed all the issues raised. In regard to Bantry, I look forward to engaging with the Deputy.

In response to Deputy Michael Colreavy, I do not have a conflict of interest with any of the previous companies with which I worked nor do I believe I have any conflict with any entity, but if I do I know the rule which is that at a board meeting I must excuse myself. I am very familiar with the code of practice of semi-State bodies having been a chief executive of a semi-State body and having working in semi-State bodies for 13 years of my career. I understand the whole issue of conflict of interest. I do not have a current conflict of interest with any of my previous employers.

Clearly, I have been reading into my brief with the chief executive and have had numerous meetings with the chief executive on the port. I will have to steward ten to 11 board meetings per year. Next Monday and Tuesday I have a two-day strategic session when I hope to meet all the members of the board for the first time. The rule of thumb for a board director is that it is at least double the time. There is an element to the chairmanship of the Port of Cork which is also ceremonial, unlike the role of a chairman in Dublin or elsewhere. Given the history of the chairmanship of the port, going back to the time of the harbour commissioners, one has to attend many functions on behalf of the Port of Cork because of the importance of the port to the region. Clearly that is something I have to do.

From a corporate social responsibility, CSR, point of view, I welcome the comments. During my time in Bord Gáis I was very conscious of corporate social responsibility, particularly in the context of fuel poverty. When investing in infrastructure it is vitally important to engage with the local community. For example, when developing the Whitegate power plant we worked locally with Lower Aghada and Whitegate community group to ensure it was happy with the traffic traverse system which involved 800 people going to and from a site. It was vitally important that the local community was satisfied that we were not disruptive in any way. When we built pipelines across the country we had to engage. Therefore, I fully understand the concerns in that regard. The rules of strategic infrastructure appropriately include consultation. They do not hinder but set out appropriate standards for engagement with the local community. That is vitally important for any new infrastructure, particularly if we are considering major development in Ringaskiddy.

The issue of the public service stifling development was mentioned. I have been president of the chamber of commerce in the region for the past two years. In any review with all the managing directors of the major companies in the region, never once have I had an issue from any of the managing directors who were exporting, particularly agrifood, Pfizer and other pharmaceutical companies, Apple etc., on the Port of Cork in terms of a weakness for the region. Port charges have not changed for many years. In terms of competitiveness that is an issue of which we need to be conscious while also seeking to ensure the cost base of the port is appropriate to its market. I have significant experience of downsizing but I also have significant experience of upsizing which is all part of the change in a company.

All of the reform in Bord Gáis in the past five years has been done with the assistance of the Labour Relations Commission. Certainly, in the context of Labour Court rulings, it is fundamental in the rules of industrial relations. That is the way to do business. Very significant change happened in the industrial relations environment and regarding rationalisation in Bord Gáis while I was with the company, but it was done by agreement. I am aware that the rationalisation agreement put in place in 2009 at the Port of Cork is probably one of the last steps that needed to be taken in terms of flexibility in the port. From the brief I have got, I do not think industrial relations or downsizing will be the top priorities. It will be more about commercialisation, profitability and investment.

I welcome the question on renewable energy projects. The power plant built in Whitegate was landed in Ringaskiddy and brought across the harbour. There had been cases where blades and micelles for onshore wind had been brought to all harbours across the country. There is an opportunity, in my view, potentially to preassemble offshore turbines for the Celtic Sea and the Irish Sea in a number of ports. The Port of Cork is one of the ports and has been looked at by a number of manufacturers for preassembly before they go on a barge, before they are placed.

In the chamber of commerce we conducted a study in recent years. The harbour area is a national energy hub with refining, power plants, the maritime research area, renewable energy landing and, I hope, assembly. That is a real opportunity. With the potential onset of oil and gas exploration, who is to say we will not have a mini-Aberdeen in Ringaskiddy in the future.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Mr. Mullins will probably forgive me for being parochial but the Port of Waterford and New Ross Harbour are in my constituency and, therefore, that is where my loyalties lie. I visited the Irish maritime and energy research cluster in Cork during the summer and was quite impressed with what it is trying to do. It was intriguing from the Naval Service point of view given that the Naval Service has reinvented itself into human resource expertise in the area of research and energy innovation. The question is how to move that on with the wave energy project as there is much research taking place. How can we get beyond the research stage? Having been around this issue as well as wind energy for a long time, we never seem to be able to get beyond the prototype stage. What needs to be done to get that up and running given that we have signed the memorandum of understanding between Britain and Ireland? We realise that if we are to make headway with wave and tidal energy we have to do it as one jurisdiction. How can it be moved on from the research stage? I am aware the Government is trying to get everything in order but there appears to be a major gap between research and the delivery of units of electricity. What is the missing link and what role, if any, has the witness?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I wish Mr. Mullins the best of luck in his role. I have no doubt he would be capable in it. However, I hope his success will not come at the expense of the Port of Foynes.

Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is being parochial.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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In regard to an issue which I am sure is an issue in Cork as well as elsewhere, that of foreshore licensing and trying to streamline it into a proper planning process, what level of importance has the port placed on that issue? Has it engaged with the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and the statutory agencies with a view to streamlining it? From my limited knowledge of foreshore licensing, it has not changed much in the past century. Whether one wants to put a buoy in a river on which to tie a dingy, or an oil platform in an estuary, it takes the same level of precedence by the Department regardless of the scale of activity and the impact on the economy. It is clear from speaking to ports around the country that the way it is being implemented is ludicrous. I would like to hear Mr. Mullins's thoughts on the issue?

Mr. John Mullins:

In response to Deputy Phelan, the Irish maritime and energy resource cluster, IMERC, is a fantastic opportunity.

In my time at Bord Gáis the company contributed towards its establishment and I championed the opportunity. I have been involved in energy internationally for more than 20 years. The Danes got a steal on onshore wind because they invested in it early and we have an opportunity to do the same with regard to marine energy. We have the intellectual capability and the naval involvement, particularly the involvement of the head of the Navy, Commodore Mark Mellett, has been phenomenal. He is to be congratulated on the way our navy and Defence Forces engage with industry and academia. IMERC has already received interest from US financiers in developing products and not only green energy.

Tidal energy is closer to reality than wave energy. During my time at Bord Gáis it invested in OpenHydro in Greenore and it has worked out handsomely. Bord Gáis obtained a Crown Estate licence for 100 MW offshore at Rathlin which goes to the UK market. As the markets will be unified, the price will be the same on both markets. The material science for wave energy must improve. I am an engineer and am aware of the large number of moving parts and hydraulics which go through enormous stresses and strains in storm force winds. The concept of studying the material science of this is critical to converting a commercial prototype into reality.

In the next five years, given the work going through IMERC and internationally, we will see the first commercially viable wave machines in motion. World energy issues will not be addressed with one silver bullet, whether that be shale gas or otherwise. All of the technologies must be harnessed and between tidal and wave energy IMERC is being developed at the right time and will have benefits for multiple ports throughout the country and for the country's balance of payments.

I have plenty of experience of the delays which can occur in foreshore licensing. All I can give the committee is my diagnosis. I have not engaged with the Port of Cork on the matter and I am not aware of any foreshore licence issue which is hindering the operations of the port. From my experience of having to deal with cables and other pieces of infrastructure, my diagnosis is that the area dealing with foreshore licensing has been moved from one Department to another and probably has not had the arms around it that it should have had, and has not been integrated as part of the overall planning process. This is my personal view and not that of the Port of Cork. There needs to be a realisation that foreshore licensing is part of the overall infrastructure provision and needs to be integrated as part of this. Many aspects of the planning process are such that economic pragmatism would indicate speed. There are times when it is proper not to allow a foreshore licence, but the process takes too long for the economic and competitive advantage of the country. We need to analyse why this happens. I do not believe the Port of Cork has issues of this nature at present. This is not to say we will not have such issues in the future. Perhaps the committee might take up the issue with the appropriate Department.

Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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I do not have figures, but I imagine the businesses and industries based in the Port of Cork would be particularly heavy energy consumers. Should we consider the possibility of locating renewable energy projects nearby which would feed this business and industry campus and perhaps have competitive rates to attract new businesses and industries?

Mr. John Mullins:

There are plans to put five wind turbines in the lower harbour, and this is coming from the pharma-chem sector. They have gone through the planning process and the project is going forward as an environmental and economic statement with respect to the provision of energy in the lower harbour. Recently, two wind turbines just above Whitegate on the eastern side were fully commissioned. In Copenhagen one sees a number of wind turbines welcoming one to the city. We still have such opportunities and it makes a statement about the harbour to show sustainability in appropriate locations. Movements are afoot.

Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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I am asking about an extension whereby the Port of Cork community would become sustainable and any overflow would go to the national grid. If it were self-sustaining it may attract lower energy costs and more businesses and industries. Is this a possibility?

Mr. John Mullins:

While we have a large landbank, it is not endless with regard to renewable energy. With regard to energy sustainability the fact we are certified to ISO 14001 and OHSAS 18001 gives an indication of the environmental sustainability at the very core. Other issues such as European directives on marine diesel are coming to the fore also and we need to be conscious of these. Environmental sustainability is something I will examine very seriously during my tenure. I am not aware of any specific plans of the Port of Cork with regard to wind farms.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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I welcome Mr. Mullins and wish him every success in his new role. Deputy Dooley referred to the planning decision in Ringaskiddy and I share his surprise and bewilderment at it. There has not been a railway line anywhere near there for 60 or 70 years. It was bizarre. Even if it could be reinstated, how would it go through the city of Cork? Deputy O'Donovan mentioned the railway line in Foynes, which was cannibalised for other parts of the rail network, such as for Silvermines traffic. If we want railways into ports there are easier ways to achieve it than requiring the Port of Cork to do it in Ringaskiddy. The Marino Point idea seems to be a good one. Who owns the site?

Mr. John Mullins:

NAMA owns it at present.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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An issue is how slow places in Cork Harbour are to change their use, for example, the Irish Steel site. Does the harbour authority have the power to develop assets? I am delighted it is getting one back from NAMA. Cobh has substantial railway frontage which is not really used. Is it of any use to the harbour?

Mr. John Mullins:

It is and cruise liners land at the station so passengers have an opportunity to go directly to Cork by rail. The rail service is well-serviced by Irish Rail and is still very successful and is very frequent.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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Does it have scope for rail freight?

Mr. John Mullins:

Marino Point is on the same line that goes through Fota from Glounthaune. It was the old rail freight line which went to Horgan's Quay and from there to the rest of the country. The rail freight capability is still intact, not to Cobh which would not have the berthage and area, but to Marino Point.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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Industry surveys confirm what Mr. Mullins says. The last ones I saw from Chambers Ireland found that the ports were the least complained about part of the Irish transport system. We can compliment the incoming chairman on inheriting that record. They are unsung but extremely valuable. I wish the chairman designate every success

Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Thank you, Senator and I thank members of the committee. That concludes our consideration of this topic.

I thank you, Mr. John Mullins, for a very informative session. It will help us to deliberate on our business. As Senator Barrett has said, there is a great future for our ports. I wish you well, Mr. Mullins. It is good to have someone of your calibre involved at this level. The committee appreciates that.

Is it agreed that the committee will inform the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Leo Varadkar, that we have concluded our discussions with Mr. Mullins, and that we forward a copy of the transcript of the meeting to the Minister, for his information? Agreed.

Thank you, again, for your assistance.

The joint committee will now adjourn until 9.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 6 March, when the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, will discuss the Office for Internet Safety and social media.