Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 27 February 2013

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade

The Case of Mr. Sergei Magnitsky: Discussion

4:00 pm

Mr. William Browder:

I apologise and withdraw it. The Deputy Interior Minister and others are also on that list. While the original list includes persons up to Deputy Minister level I expect the new list will include persons at a higher level.

On asset tracing, there are two issues involved. First, assets held in America or in Europe by any person on the list and second, where the money has gone. Through working with a number of investigators, investigative journalists and whistleblowers we have been able to locate €135 million of the €230 million stolen. That money was located in eight jurisdictions, including Cyprus, Moldova, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Switzerland, Finland and Austria. The Swiss have frozen millions of dollars, as have the Austrians and Lithuanians. Our hope is that all this money will be frozen so that the people who perpetrated this crime will not benefit from it.

I should also point out that the €230 million stolen was only the tip of the iceberg. We have discovered that in addition to that amount, the same group in Government and the criminals, using the same scheme and tax office and people, stole at least another €800 million. On retaliation in other countries, the Russian Government has retaliated against the US in the form of banning US adoptions, pork and cutting off law enforcement co-operation, with a specific purpose. The Russians are not overly concerned about the US in that the damage has already been done in the US. They are, however, worried about what happens in Europe, which is where all of their interests are. They wanted to send out the message loud and clear that Russia proposes to retaliate. The best way of dealing with this type of threat is to do this on a concerted basis with every other country. Gazprom has done a lot of bad stuff, in respect of which the European Commission, as opposed to individual countries, is engaged in an investigation. Acting in numbers is safer.