Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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The purpose of this meeting is to meet with representatives of Autoglass Ireland to discuss the issue of windscreen replacements. On behalf of the committee I welcome Mr. Heiner Herz, general manager of Autoglass Ireland, his colleagues, Mr. Alun Donnelly and Mr. Chris Davies, and Mr. Mike McCarthy of the Transport Research Laboratory. I read the statement on defamation earlier so we will begin the contributions. I invite Mr. Heiner Herz to make the opening statement.

Mr. Heiner Herz:

I thank the Chairman and the members for the opportunity to speak about windscreen replacement and safety in Ireland. To my left is Dr. Chris Davies from our research centre. He is the head of international research and innovation. Our quality manager, Alun Donnelly, is present also, and Mike McCarthy from TRL, the Transport Research Laboratory. We hope to be in a position to answer questions in the best possible way.

I will give some background on Autoglass. We are part of the Belgron group, which operates in 37 countries. To give an idea of size, we do about 11 million interventions on windscreens around the world, and we have 25,000 employees worldwide. Autoglass is in Ireland and in the United Kingdom. We employed 110 people in Ireland up to 2012. We do approximately 32,000 interventions of repair and replacement and 19,000 total replacements in the Republic. The presentation indicates the different locations from which we operate. I will ask Dr. Davies to speak about the technical side.

Mr. Chris Davies:

Car manufacturers today rely more on glass as a structural part of a vehicle. That glass, and not only bigger pieces of glass, is one of the main drivers in terms of safety and the environment. From a safety point of view, bigger pieces of glass give better visibility for the driver. From an environmental point of view, using glass, which is a strong material, allows for less metal or steel in the vehicle and brings down weight. Manufacturers rely on the glass to give some level of roof crash resistance in the event of a roll-over, for example, but also it imparts some torsional rigidity; without the glass the vehicle does not drive straight. The wheels are not necessarily parallel and do not necessarily sit flat on the road, and the glass, with the bond and adhesive used, ensures that the stiffness of the vehicle is retained.

The other opportunity glass provides is that it allows for the airbag to inflate properly, particularly for the passenger side, because the steering wheel is in front of the driver and when the airbag inflates it closes a gap. In the event of an accident, the driver is moving forward, the air bag fills that space and provides a cushioning to slow down the acceleration experienced by the body. The passenger does not have close proximity to anything, so he or she relies on a very big airbag to fill the space, and to inflate properly that airbag relies on the windscreen being bonded properly into the vehicle. If the glass is not bonded properly it does not allow the occupant to strike the airbag in the correct position, and the acceleration process is modified greatly.

The final point about the importance of a windscreen in keeping the occupants within the vehicle is that there is a good deal of historic research which shows that if someone is ejected from the vehicle in the event of an accident, his or her risk of significant injury or fatality is increased three- or fourfold. Seat belts help to keep occupants within the vehicle but the airbag has a part to play. If a person is not wearing a seat belt and the windscreen is not there, occupants are not kept within the vehicle. I will show the members some images of what a correctly fitted screen should do in an accident.

One can see the airbag has inflated within the vehicle, thus restraining the occupant, or, rather, controlling the acceleration from full speed down to zero over a controlled period. The airbag relies on the windscreen to allow it to inflate properly. When the passenger strikes the airbag, the cushioning effect is the result of a combination of the positioning of the airbag and the windscreen.

We did some crash tests some time ago to consider the effects of an incorrectly bonded windscreen. We used two Ford Focus vehicles in order that they would behave in the same way. One had correct bonding and the other did not. In the test the vehicles were both travelling at the same speed. One may think of the process as symmetrical; in other words, both vehicles should behave in exactly the same way. One can see the correctly bonded windscreen bulged out because the airbag was doing its job by pushing against it. The energy of the occupant was arrested by the airbag-glass combination. In the other vehicle the incorrectly bonded windscreen became detached and the airbag, the great volume of which should be contained within the vehicle, was partially pushed out of the vehicle. Thus, the occupant could not experience acceleration in the same way. Not only would the occupant hit the airbag in the wrong position but he or she would be subject to a different level of travel. There is a risk that his or her acceleration would be affected more by the seatbelt, which is dangerous, than by the airbag. An airbag acts a cushion, whereas a seatbelt exerts a restrictive force whcih is relayed to internal organs and the bone structure of the occupant.

There is a hidden problem, an invisible problem. The adhesives used in the fitting of windscreens are very sticky. When the job is first done, it looks normal and perfect. However, as the polyurethane adhesive cures, it becomes hard. Since the chemistry of polyurethane is different from that of typical paints on cars and glass, the adhesive comes away from the glass or body work over time. This leads to two scenarios. Either we notice a damaged windscreen is not stuck in properly when we go to replace it or, worse, we notice the windscreen actually comes out in an accident, potentially resulting in greater injury. The chemistry of the adhesives is complex. There are primers and the adhesive. They are designed to ensure the windscreen remains in the vehicle during a severe accident. As members will have seen in the image of the crash test, when a windscreen behaves properly, although the glass fractures, it remains entirely in the car and allows the airbag to work properly.

Our technicians get very concerned about windscreen bonding when removing windscreens. The image shows that adhesive that should be intimately bonded to the vehicle can be pulled away by hand. This should never happen. In the image of the Garda van, one can see that the windscreen is capable of being pushed out by hand. The image of the customer vehicle implies that the windscreen should be intimately bonded to the vehicle such that it should stay in place in an accident. This is clearly not the case with the vehicles in question.

Mr. Heiner Herz:

Let me outline how we highlighted this issue. When we saw these cases, we spoke to the Road Safety Authority. It stated we were the experts and the only ones who could do something about the problem but that it needed to be addressed by way of an independent study. We mandated work with TRL, a transport research laboratory and the biggest expert in transport research in Europe. It works with famous brands and also bodies such as the European Commission, the Department for Transport in the United Kingdom and even the International Automobile Federation.

Let me refer to our methodology. We carried out an audit of all the windscreens we had replaced. The study lasted 14 weeks and covered the entire Republic of Ireland. During the period over 5,000 windscreens were replaced. We found that 500 of them had been replaced previously. This constituted the base of the study. Shockingly, we found that over 35% exhibited some quality or safety issue. More worryingly, over 14% of these showed serious safety issues, meaning that if the driver had been in an accident, there could have been serious health implications or even a lethal outcome. We accumulated and extrapolated the figures for the past five years and concluded that between 60,000 and 90,000 vehicles on the road could have serious safety issues. This is a source of major concern for us.

We spoke to the major stakeholders and received some very positive feedback and support from the Irish Brokers Association, the Irish Road Haulage Association and the Institute of Automotive Engineer Assessors, which was very surprised by the issue. We were also in contact with the Road Safety Authority and the Institute of the Motor Industry, which also offered support. We all believe it is urgent that the problem be addressed. Windscreens are being replaced with others of poor quality. Windscreens are much more complex than they used to be and are integral to the strength of a car. Airbags are an essential part of the safety system. Cars are becoming older in Ireland, meaning the chances of having one's windscreen replaced are becoming greater. Furthermore, the recession might lead people to make the wrong choice and go to a cheap supplier who does not do quality work.

The first solution is the acknowledgement of the problem. I again thank the committee for affording us an opportunity to speak about it. As the police do not collect the relevant data, however, another solution is to record accident data. A minimum standard needs to be introduced. The National Standards Authority of Ireland has a role to play in validating the training of personnel, the use of quality products and the standardised processes. Our last recommendation is for a monitoring system to protect the consumer. The Irish Insurance Federation has a role to play in this regard. As over 70% of drivers are insured for windscreen damage, it is possible to have influence in this area. The NCT, at a later stage, also has a role to play.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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My questions will be very brief because Mr. Herz, in his final summation, has answered them. I will go through them nevertheless to obtain further clarification. Is there certification? Can any unregistered back-street crash repair operator fit a windscreen? If I set up in the morning, would I have to meet any standard and would my staff have to be trained in a particular way, do certain courses or be certified as a mechanic?

I thank Mr. Herz for producing the independent report which is very helpful. He mentioned the NCT. Is the windscreen tested in the current NCT process? While a visual check is made to determine whether the windscreen is cracked, is there a more detailed visual inspection to determine whether the bonding is appropriate? Is there a pressure test to demonstrate the conditions indicated by Mr. Herz?

I suggest the committee take the technical report provided by the Transport Research Laboratory and discuss it with the Road Safety Authority. Following on from this, the committee should prepare a short report with some recommendations which it could provide for the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport and the UK ministry of transport. Mr. Herz highlighted a serious road safety issue and identified the changes in the structural integrity of vehicles. Older cars had much greater levels of steel and support structures, but this is no longer the case. It is a matter the committee must take seriously as it is a driver and passenger safety issue.

Mr. Heiner Herz:

In a scary way, there are no rules for becoming a windscreen technician. Anyone can open a shop, buy windscreen glass and glue it in in whatever way he or she wants. We have come across windscreen replacements put in with bathroom sealer. There is no training available and it usually is the older technician training the younger one. Thirty years ago the windscreen was very different. As Mr. Davies explained, windscreen replacement is a very complex chemical process. If one step of the process is missed, it can pose a problem. The root of the problem is that there are no standards; no training is provided and up to now the problem was invisible. The National Car Testing Service, NCT, makes a visual check and inspects to see if the E-mark is on the glass. However, this will not identify any underlying problems with the windscreen. Mr. Davies is working on how to scan or test the bond, but currently there is nothing on the market that can identify if a windscreen has been fitted badly.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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I thank the delegates for the presentation. Having only had my windscreen replaced in the past three weeks, they have me very worried. I am glad the E-mark is used to identify a proper windscreen, but I do not believe the majority of road users consider there is an issue with windscreen replacement standards. I was not aware of how significant the windscreen was to car safety in the way it worked with the airbags. We must highlight and deal with this issue.

On the point about accreditation for technicians in fitting windscreens, we have a similar problem with tyre fitting. People are duped when they buy cheap tyres and do themselves a disservice. These are important issues which the committee must address.

Mr. Heiner Herz:

I thank the Deputy for her questions. It is all about awareness and the Deputy hit the nail on the head. We had the case of a lady who came to Autoglass with a wind noise issue with her car. We could actually push out the windscreen, but she was completely unaware of how badly fitted it had been. Lack of awareness is the single largest issue. The other problem is that people do not know where they should attend because of a lack of accreditation.

Mr. Chris Davies:

Everyone is aware that a car's braking system is an important safety measure and that tyres need to have a proper thread. The windscreen, however, has passed through time without anyone being aware of how important it is not only to the vehicle's structural strength but also its safety. It is the same across the world. It is hard to know whether a windscreen has been fitted properly unless one cuts it out, but that is a destructive test.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Or unless one crashes one's car.

Mr. Chris Davies:

Yes, unfortunately. What we want to ensure is that people follow a minimum level of quality to ensure consumer safety. This can be done with correct products and training programmes, which we have put in place. The most important point for us is the safety of our consumers.

Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the delegates for their presentations. The NCT and the National Standards Authority of Ireland, NSAI, offer the only methods open to us to check for windscreen replacement safety. Having regulations would be more difficult. Is the delegation opposed to using the glue injection method in fixing a windscreen? Does that method weaken the structural safety of the car?

Many people will go to breakers' yards to get second-hand windscreens which may have been involved in road crashes. Since we do not know what stresses have been exerted on such windscreens, is this a bad way of replacing a windscreen? It has been mentioned that there are many car owners who have had repeated windscreen breaks. Is this a case of bad glass being used or someone driving on a bad back road? The delegation has claimed the windscreens in between 60,000 and 90,000 cars might be impaired. How did it arrive at this figure? What statistics are available in this regard?

Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the delegation for the presentation. The audit covered 5,000 windscreens that had been replaced and 35% exhibited some quality or safety issue. Was that 35% of the 5,000 windscreens which had been replaced or the 500 which had been replaced previously?

Does the problem arise solely with windscreens that were previously replaced or is it inherent to the way the car was originally manufactured? Criteria and guidelines are lacking in this country. What is the position in other jurisdictions?

Mr. Heiner Herz:

They are very interesting and good questions. I invite our technical expert to answer the question on repair and second-hand glass.

Mr. Chris Davies:

Glass repair is a service that has been offered in the industry for at least 20 years. By coincidence, Belron started offering repair as a service because we believed if stone damage could be repaired, depending on size and location, it would be a cost-effective service for our customers. To make sure we answered the question of safety, we worked with TRL in 2000 to develop our understanding of the implications for safety. As correctly fitted laminated windscreens rely on the plastic interlayer for their operation, we did not damage that at all and the findings indicated there were no safety implications from repair. In regard to second-hand glass, we are a profit making organisation and we love to have the opportunity to sell a new piece of glass. However, provided that the glass is in perfect condition and is installed in a safe manner, using the correct materials and process, it is fine.

Mr. Heiner Herz:

We were asked for more details on the findings.

Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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I asked about the figure for peak glass breaks, which was in the region of 5,000.

Mr. Heiner Herz:

In Ireland and in the world the difference is called the breakage rate and it is influenced by road conditions, winters, etc. On average in Ireland glass is broken once every eight years. That varies according to speed and traffic conditions. We found no issues with glass installed first hand by the constructors, who have rigorous control systems that often rely on robots. The main issue arose in respect of the 500 previously replaced windscreens, which is known as the after market segment and is where Belron Autoglass operates.

Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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Are guidelines or criteria laid down in other jurisdictions?

Mr. Chris Davies:

Typically the after market is unregulated. We have our own internal systems to ensure that processes and technicians' skills are up to scratch. We have a proper training programme, work closely with the suppliers to the car manufacturers and use adhesive systems from companies that supply the automotive industry.

Mr. Heiner Herz:

The findings are quite frightening internationally because this alarm bell has not sounded in any of our neighbouring countries. Part of the solution is to follow the UK example of accreditation of automobile technicians. This is called ATA accreditation and we have implemented it in Ireland. It is based on proper workmanship and practices. These initiatives result in a better system and improved quality.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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It strikes me as strange that even though the car industry globally has concentrated on road safety over the past 25 years, we do not have international regulations on windscreens. Given that windscreens are critical to the safety of road vehicles it is strange that we are only highlighting this issue now.

Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Are statistics available on accidents caused by windscreen problems?

Mr. Heiner Herz:

That is a very interesting question. When we spoke to the Road Safety Authority we were told that nothing was recorded at local authority level. When we informed the chief fire officer about the issue he told us that we was previously unaware of it. When the emergency services arrive at the scene of a crash more often than not the windscreen is out of the car. This is an advantage for them because it is easier to cut off the roof of the vehicle.

In one instance in the United States an individual linked the loss of his sister in a car crash to a windscreen that had been improperly bonded. The roof of the vehicle collapsed on her and broke her neck. This awareness is increasing, particularly in America, but there was also an incident in Chile in which a stone was thrown through the windscreen of a car. We will be more prone to have such issues in Ireland than in, for example, Germany where the after market is not as developed and manufacturers do much of the installation themselves. The findings may be bad but they offer an opportunity for Ireland to set a good example. It would be a good result if we can increase awareness generally in other countries.

Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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The Road Safety Authority is coming before the committee next week and members should raise the issue then. Has Mr. Herz spoken with insurance companies on the issue?

Mr. Heiner Herz:

Yes, we have engaged with most of the stakeholders, with varying degrees of success. We are in contact with the Irish Insurance Federation but we have not yet seen concrete results. Insurance companies work with complaints but one does not complain when everything seems fine. We have also engaged with certain insurance companies which have taken the issue seriously and are trying to find a way of addressing it. It would be preferable to put the stakeholders in a room to create an Irish standard and fix the rule once and for all because we cannot judge something that has no official rules. We need to develop the rules with which everybody can comply. Nobody wishes to harm people. There is a will to comply but it is difficult to do so at present.

Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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This has been a very informative meeting which challenged us to help make the process more informative. I thank the witnesses for the information they supplied to the committee and we will raise the issue again next week with the Road Safety Authority.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I take it that we have agreed to prepare a report for the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport with a short list of recommendations based on the evidence presented and the response from the NRA.

Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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In the meantime we will write to the Road Safety Authority. It is up to members to raise the issue next week. I was only informing the committee that the authority will come before it next week. We will also formalise our response.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Will we send our recommendations to the Department?

Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Yes. Is that agreed? Agreed. As there is no other business, the committee is adjourned until 9.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 13 February, when we will meet officials from the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, the Road Safety Authority and the Health and Safety Authority to discuss the European Commission's roadworthiness package.