Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 13 December 2012

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement

Youth Issues: Discussion

12:00 pm

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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Our first item for discussion is the work of Youth Work Ireland and Youth Action Northern Ireland, YANI, in supporting young people. I am delighted they are present in a joint capacity. Youth work is an area in which I am interested as a former youth worker and community development worker. Our guests are speaking to the converted. Given the community and civic work done by the committee's members, they undoubtedly have an interest in this issue.

I am pleased to welcome from Youth Work Ireland Mr. Patrick Burke, CEO, Mr. John Gilmore, president, and Mr. Michael McLoughlin, head of advocacy and communications. From YANI, I welcome Ms Caroline Redpath and Mr. Martin McMullan, assistant directors. I have a great preamble ready about what the organisations do, but I will discard it as the delegates will give a presentation on the good work in which they are involved.

I advise delegates that when I invite them to make their presentations, they will be protected by absolute privilege in respect of utterances at this committee. However, if they are directed by the committee to cease making remarks on a particular matter and they continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their remarks. They are directed that only comments and evidence related to the subject matter of this meeting are to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against a Member of either House of the Oireachtas, a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Before I call on Mr. Gilmore to start proceedings, I will give the delegates an idea of the committee's approach. We sit once a month, but we also do a bit of outreach work and try to visit Northern Ireland. Recently, we visited Unionist, loyalist and Nationalist communities in east, north and south Belfast. We still need to conduct an evaluation, which we will do in private session after today's presentations. Our visits were interesting.

We are concerned about the issues on the ground. While driving home to Donegal last Thursday, I came across 16, 17 and 18 year olds in Omagh. Matters are not pigeon-holed into Belfast. We are quite concerned about the entire dynamic and questions will be asked at this meeting in that regard.

I invite Mr. Gilmore to make his presentation.

Mr. John Gilmore:

I thank the committee for inviting us to attend. It is a pleasure for Youth Work Ireland to be present alongside our Northern partners, YANI. I will provide an introduction to our organisation. I am the president and a volunteer. I was young when I took up my post, but now that I am hitting on 25 years of age, I am moving on a little bit.

We are a national organisation and the largest youth work organisation in Ireland, comprising a federation of 22 regional youth services. What makes us unique is that our focus is very much on the local. We pride ourselves on being local services led by local people that come together as Youth Work Ireland on a national footing to work collectively, to ensure young people have a voice nationally and to ensure the best service provision for them.

It is difficult to make estimates, but we work with approximately 100,000 young people through a number of programmes and projects. We have approximately 450 clubs and projects, but our services also work with young people one on one and through other fora. We try to promote an integrated service and ensure any young person who approaches us has the service he or she needs, be it focused or universal.

Our unique community focus and our structure have led to us being a good fit with YANI. That group has a community focus, working with over 200 communities with a large volunteer base and approximately 17,000 young people. A number of years ago we came together and decided to work on the same footing. Things have improved greatly for cross-Border initiatives and young people in the 32 counties of Ireland but we cannot become complacent and there are still significant issues. Through the auspices of youth work we are trying to help and promote peace, ensuring that young people are supported. Youth work plays a vital role in that respect for young people.

I will hand over to Mr. Michael McLoughlin, our head of advocacy and communications, who will provide some indication of the kind of work we do in our partnership.

12:05 pm

Mr. Michael McLoughlin:

The partnership between the two organisations is based on a strategic plan and agreement. It is very substantial in terms of meeting and progressing work. We have a very strong focus on front-line work with young people in communities, and although teams and managers meet to speak about the type and quality of work, we also run direct programmes. For example, I have provided the Chairman with information about the Irish Youth Music Awards, which has over 10,000 people from young bands in local communities participating North and South of the Border. Ms Redpath can speak a bit more about an apprenticeship programme for youth workers, run directly for young people who wish to pursue a career in youth work on both sides of the Border. A while ago Mr. McMullan and I were strongly associated with exchange work involving young people North and South of the Border and people in the south-west Balkans in Bosnia, Croatia and Serbia. That took in the lessons of conflict and its impact on young people. There is a significant level of direct work ongoing, which we hope is one of the strong outcomes of the partnership.

In considering the committee's agenda, it may wish to examine the common challenges faced by young people in youth unemployment. There are large numbers of young people who are not in education North and South of the Border, and we have had much discussion about that. We are trying to raise political engagement in young people, and there is an active voices of youth group, with young people engaging directly with policy makers. That is consistent with the national children's strategy and the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. In the North there is a Let's Talk initiative, which is similar, and we are trying to bring those together as much as possible. There is much going on of great relevance, and even in the area of health and well-being we have always tried to highlight issues about young people's mental and physical health.

There is a North-South dimension to that as well, and we often hear North-South trade cited as a reason not to take action on issues such as alcohol and tobacco pricing. The World Health Organisation advocates a public health view and I know there have been meetings between the Ministers North and South about those issues. We encourage the committee to take an active interest in that so that the Border is not used as an excuse not to take effective public health measures on behalf of young people, for example.

It is 15 years since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement. In working together and as institutions mature and relationships improve, we should look for more dedicated space for young people in those institutions and in civic society engagement. Even if we want to put forward joint initiatives and measures, it is very hard to find a space to do so. There is no North-South body in this area, and the only opportunity for co-operation is in the education field, and even that tends to be very limited in what can be done. We are working together on a North-South basis and coming across many issues but we are scratching the surface. It is very hard to find institutional space and, related to this, it is very hard to find the funding base to do that work. We are robbing Peter to pay Paul even in doing the most basic or rudimentary work. The committee should think about whether there is a way of supporting such work on a North-South basis. There are one or two small programmes but we are merely scratching the surface and doing some very basic things. We are dipping in and out but there should be a greater space for young people and youth organisations in the institutional framework, with some type of improved funding base for working together for the future of young people. That would be a valuable outcome from this work.

Mr. Martin McMullan:

I thank the committee for having us here today. I will provide a brief insight into Youth Action Northern Ireland and some of its key work. Ms Redpath will take us through aspects of employability in young people and some key issues for the future.

Youth Action Northern Ireland, a charitable regional voluntary youth non-governmental organisation in the North, has been around for between 65 and 70 years. Like Youth Work Ireland, our strategic partner, we are a membership-based organisation. We have regional bases across the North in Derry, Enniskillen, Armagh, Ballygawley, Kilkeel, Newry and the hub in Belfast. We are based in these locations but we also prioritise work throughout the region, including Border counties both North and South, with a range of programmes operating across them.

The organisation is based primarily on research and needs assessment, working in partnership with local communities. Our practice develops through evidence-based need, and we are a practice-based organisation that builds the capacity of the youth sector in the North. We are also strategic in working across Departments, taking in health, education, employment and learning. We contribute to policy discussions and involve young people in engagement with politicians and as my colleague mentioned, we are looking at Let's Talk programmes, where young people can come together on a range of issues to debate with politicians. Our work is very much about education and a community-based approach.

I will speak about peace and reconciliation before handing over to my colleague. Reconciliation issues are a priority this year for the committee. We are working with young people on the ground on the issue of peace education and the legacy of the conflict, and a sentiment that arises is that it is always in the back of people's minds. There is not the same level of shootings and bombs but in the back of young people's heads, it is there consistently. This may relate to safety of movement in school or leisure services, for example. There is now an issue with flags in the North, which is contentious, and we must engage with young people on it.

We live in a segregated society, with segregated housing, education and leisure services. Even still there is segregated employment. The challenge is to work with young people to try to help them develop critical minds and meet young people different from themselves. They should learn to appreciate the diversity in Ireland beyond the traditional Protestant-Catholic population, and we have many minority ethnic communities. We must take in how to approach broader diversity in a range of issues. According to researchers in Queen's University in Belfast in 2009, 75% of young people expressed a fear of travelling to another community, whether for education, employment or social friendships. That means three quarters of young people still feel very frightened with regard to mobility. One of our executive members, who works for the Northern Ireland Tourist Board spoke recently about young people from the South, particularly Dublin, who are still frightened to come to the North and Belfast because of the legacy of the conflict and fear for safety. That is how young people feel.

The Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister and BBC worked on a legacy pack a number of years ago, and we were able to hear and read the stories of mostly adult civilians and those involved in the armed conflict. What was missing from that pack was the voice of young people. We have been trying to capture the voice of young people through publications, with an example being Peace and Quiet, Noise and Riot. It sums up the very volatile position in the North, where we can be living with peace and quiet and believe everything is okay, with something erupting because of volatility, leading us to feel we are going backwards rather than forwards. We must try to capture the voice of young people so others can listen to what is going on.

Some 82% of young people in a Community Relations Council 2009 report cited that they believed community relations between the two primary communities would be better if there were projects to address community relations. However, in speaking to young people about community relations, there is often a disconnect and they can feel it is not particularly relevant; it may appear that they are apathetic and it has no impact on them but that is not true. We must keep the work real and relevant, helping young people to provoke curiosity and break down attitudes and barriers. We should help young people to come together through contact, paradoxical curiosity and inquiry.

Let us take the flags issue in the North which led to young people and adults demonstrating on the streets in Omagh and elsewhere. At the same time we must appreciate and savour how far we have come and recognise that young people are actively involved in their communities and act as volunteers. As Youth Work Ireland has cited, young people are keen to become involved in politics, but they do not know how. They have an interest in political issues but perhaps not in party politics in the North. They present their visions of peace through symbols like those in the booklet I have in front of me. They want to remain connected and contribute, but sometimes they do not know how. From my perspective and that of Youth Action and Youth Work Ireland, we aim to develop a flourishing community, including young people. It is our responsibility to inspire a more optimistic and happy society and young people.

12:15 pm

Ms Caroline Redpath:

As Mr. McMullan said, Youth Action is a practice-based organisation and employs people to work directly with young people in communities. He has also talked about some of the programmes we deliver. We have key priority areas of work and I shall highlight a couple of programmes that we deliver on a cross-Border basis with Youth Work Ireland. Like the South, we have a high unemployment rate in the North, with one in five young people out of work. The committee showed a particular interest in this issue during its recent visit to the North.

Mr. McMullan talked about the cross-Border apprenticeship programme which employed 43 young people from across Derry-Londonderry, Donegal, Monaghan, Fermanagh and Belfast for 18 months. They completed a level 3 youth work apprenticeship programme which was recognised by the Department of Employment and Learning in Northern Ireland. Obviously, they accessed a training grant, but we secured external funding from the International Fund for Ireland and The Atlantic Philanthropies. Both organisations have been very supportive. A key aspect of the programme is to increase the employability of young people. Obviously, they learn about turning up for work on time, how to fill in time sheets and about youth work. The programme delivers good and effective youth work opportunities to young people. As Mr. McMullan said, it is about young people learning about life, helps them to be hopeful, optimistic and interested in their surroundings and encourages them to participate in their community and community events. The good thing about the programme is that young people can avail of a community placement and thus become involved in youth work. Obviously, they must do so to gain their qualification.

Another key aspect is that we introduce all of the themes of peace building. The publication at the back of our legacy pack has been a great resource for us. As members will be aware and understand, we need people to tell each other their story, understand it, know how they feel and their attitude to various matters. Mr. McMullan highlighted the flags issue. Our document has been a brilliant resource for us, as it helps young people to tell their stories but also to listen to others. At the back of the publication there is a list of shorter programmes for young people that last for 16 weeks. They focus on the large numer of young people who are not in employment, education or training, which is a major issue for us in the North. We go through a process with these young people and try to engage them. We try to get them interested in undertaking a lot of confidence-building work, in addition to completing short qualification courses and learning essential skills. This is all done to give them confidence in learning and prove to them that they have an ability to learn. A lot of these young people would have issues such as to do with drugs and alcohol and we use specialised services to provide support for them. We also provide mentors on the programmes who work with them to help to plan and take responsibility for their learning.

A lot of our work is focused on the employability of young people. As Mr. McMullan and Mr. McLoughlin have highlighted, we provide a lot of support and try to get young people to engage in the political process. In the North 56% of young people in the 17 to 25 year age group are not registered to vote. It is very important, following the Good Friday Agreement and with a devolved Administration, that young people become engaged in politics and understand how it works. We also want them to become interested in local issues. Even though the statistics show that 75% of young people are not interested in politics, once my organisation engages with them they do become involved in local campaigns. For example, road safety is an issue in County Fermanagh of which Ms Gildernew will be aware. We have also got young people involved in larger campaigns in respect of public transport. The young people concerned worked with Translink which resulted in a discount card being provided for young people up to the age of 23 years. We can see how motivated young people are on such issues separate from a party political system. As Mr. McMullan said, part of our work involves giving hope to young people about their future, increasing their employability and confidence in what they can do and how they engage with others, thus building a better and more peaceful society.

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the delegates for their presentations. Ms Gildernew and Deputy Frank Feighan are offering.

Ms Michelle Gildernew, MP, MLA:

The delegates are welcome and it is good to see them here. I especially welcome Ms Redpath because I have worked with her previously. I thank the delegates for their presentations in which they covered a lot of bases. I know the difficulties surrounding young people who are not in employment and training. It is hard to reach young people, especially those leaving care and in the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community. There are many issues facing young people but one of the greatest is access to transport. At the end of Ms Redpath's presentation she talked about the Translink discount. A lot of young people do not have access to public transport because they live in a rural community. The greatest obstacle is to get to their nearest town to catch a bus. I have worked on the issue of rural transport and tried to ensure young people can access it. Young people with disabilities find it a particular problem, while young people are excluded from many activities because they do not have access to transport. For example, young people in Garristown cannot access services in Enniskillen because it is too far away. Our challenge is to make services more accessible and that campaign must continue. Many young people feel disenfranchised in more ways than one because of access issues. I appreciate that there is co-operation in this regard, but it could be enhanced and thus benefit young people across Ireland.

It is my party's policy to reduce the voting age to 16 years. We also believe it is important to have young people engaging at 14 and 15 years of age and talking about who they want to vote for. By the time they reach 18 years they may be a little jaded and cynical about politics. It is also important that young people have their electoral mandate recognised. Changing the voting age would be a huge step and a vote of confidence in our young people who get a bad press most of the time. Things are tough and I am not only referring to drugs and alcohol but the cost of insurance.

I am particularly concerned about young people who discover that they are gay. Statistics show that a young male will keep his homosexuality a secret for five years, or between the ages of 12 and 17 years. That must be a lonely place for such individuals to be in. I ask the organisations present to keep up the good work, but I also ask them to examine the issues of isolation and living in a rural community, especially for hard to reach and vulnerable young people.

Photo of Frank FeighanFrank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I apologise for being late, but I had to attend another meeting. However, I have a fair idea of what is included in the presentations. I also welcome the delegates.

I wish to raise a number of issues, health and well-being being a huge one. Obesity is exerting huge pressure on people and the health service. What do the organisations think politicians should do? Do they suggest we should conduct campaigns and engage in more collaboration?

I am concerned about the level of access to third level education in Northern Ireland, as there seems to be a great imbalance in one community, although I appreciate that there are many apprenticeships available. It is a huge imbalance. Are the delegates involved in trying to get more people into third level education? The figures are startling.

I am interested in the south-west Balkans project. Will the delegates elaborate on it? I have been to Sarajevo. Has the project been of benefit?

12:25 pm

Mr. Patrick Burke:

I will field some of the questions to the most relevant person.

Rural isolation is a huge issue for young people around the country and, obviously, transport is a critical part of it. Youth Work Ireland has almost 5,000 clubs mainly located in rural parts of the country; for example, Kildare Youth Services has between 20 and 30, while in County Donegal there are up to 50. These clubs are critical to the life experiences of young people. It is possibly their only opportunity on a Friday night to meet their peers, relax and engage in some positive learning also. Often in social policy the emphasis is on investing in programmes that work with young people who have difficulties or that see young people as a problem that must be solved. Instead, both of our organisations make it clear that we work using what we call an asset base approach, which simply means we see young people as a huge resource, hugely resilient and more than capable of organising their own lives and communities. They really want to be part of the community and clubs are a very important part of that dynamic. I come from a rural village and 30 years ago was involved in my local club. We had the GAA and the local youth club. We were all involved in both, but those who did not like sport got involved in the youth club. It was a hugely important part of our community and I have no doubt it shaped who I am today in terms of the work I do and the values I hold. Organisations such as ours which support the training and development of volunteers to facilitate these clubs are critical.

With regard to youth political engagement, we would certainly welcome a debate on the age at which young people can vote. In the recent referendum we lobbied for it to be held on a Saturday and welcomed the fact that it was. Despite the fact that the number who voted was not as high as we would have liked, we continue to be of the view that it is critical for youth participation that Saturday voting continue. It means young people can get home from college and become engaged in the process.

My colleague, Mr. Gilmore, will talk about the LGBT issue, while Mr. McLoughlin might deal with some of the health issues. My colleagues from Northern Ireland might speak about third level education and the Balkans project.

Mr. John Gilmore:

Mr. Burke spoke about the local youth club being important in rural areas. We lobbied for youth club support not to be touched in the budget and welcomed that it was not. However, a minimal amount of money is given to rural youth clubs which are led by volunteers like me in local communities who give up their time for young people. It is a hugely important area which needs investment and support in order that it can continue to flourish.

With regard to the projects in which we have engaged to access local people, one project was very innovative. Kerry Diocesan Youth Service has a mobile youth café which it built from scratch. It travels around some of the rural areas that do not have a youth project or youth café to provide services. Again, it was a youth-led initiative whereby young people were able to interact and design the idea.

It is welcome that the LGBT youth work issue was raised. Youth Work Ireland has a network of 12 LGBT youth projects. My engagement with Youth Work Ireland at a primary level was in setting up, as a volunteer, an LGBT youth project with Youth Work Ireland in Galway. It was when I worked in the equality area in the university. It is a huge sector. There are numerous pieces of research on young gay men, gay women and transgender people and the issues of coming out, gender identity, the difficulties in that regard and the importance of trying to provide social support. Our organisation is the primary provider of LGBT youth services through our strategic partners BeLonGTo where funding is channelled, but there is still no mainstream funding for regional LGBT youth work services. Our approach, like that to all our projects, is to engage LGBT young people as part of an integrated service within these specialised projects. They engage in the service as a whole. A big concern for us is that because the money has dried up, in essence, for many of our projects, particularly some in Donegal, Galway and Waterford, there is no funding available. They are trying to fund-raise, scrimp and save and take money from other projects to support these highly vulnerable and at risk young people who have a huge amount to give. It is just a question of adding that support.

Mr. Michael McLoughlin:

It is hard to know where to start on the issues of health and well-being. The idea is that the journey of 1,000 miles starts with one step. To highlight one area in the presentation on alcohol policy, for example, we have done a great deal of work on the issue during the years. There is a template available, for which the Minister of State, Deputy Alex White, has responsibility - the last Minister of State, Deputy Róisín Shortall, did a great deal of work on it in the South - based on WHO research and years of discussion with a number of players. The issue now is implementation and delivering things that have been well researched, proved and signposted. We would like to see progress being made in this discrete area.

On a broader level, there are a number of issues such as transport and so forth. From our point of the view, the participation of young people in decision making is crucial. We are involved in running Dáil na nÓg and Comhairle na nÓg which are very good initiatives, but we need more and better ones. We certainly support the widening of the franchise, but there is the issue of registering to vote, as 18 to 25 year olds have the lowest rate of registration. They also have the lowest turnout in elections. Our statistics office carried out a study about ten years ago. The rate of registration and participation in the political process increases sequentially every ten years. The highest participation rate in voting and registration is among people over 65 years, while the lowest is among 18 to 25 year olds. We must lance that boil. The registration process in the South is an absolute disaster. It is like an obstacle course. If one moves and changes address, it involves getting bits of paper, filling them in and bringing them to a Garda station. It is crazy, given that one can do most other things online such as banking and buying airline tickets. We must think about making the process much easier.

With regard to decreasing the voting age, for some bizarre reason, there was a consensus among campaigners that we should reduce the age to 16 years, but suddenly it is 17 for the constitutional convention. I do not know why or whose idea that was. Young people are not involved in the constitutional convention. They are effectively excluded because the citizens involved in it will be selected from the electoral register. We hope to do something about this to involve young people directly. We have to walk the walk on the issue of participation. We talk a great deal about it; there is lovely talk about getting young people involved and telling them they are great. However, they become very frustrated at being led up the hill on something and then seeing no delivery or action on it. The voting and constitutional convention are good examples of this.

A number of years ago we met a Minister of State to discuss the issue of alcohol and the State's response. The meeting was held in the Department of Health on the fourth floor of Hawkins House. We asked the officials if they had consulted or involved young people in these decisions but they had not. Interestingly, the office of the Minister of State with responsibility for children and youth affairs was located on the fifth floor. The Minister had responsibility for the national children's strategy which states young people should be involved in decisions that affect them. The strategy had not even moved down one floor in the lift, let alone out into the community and among decision makers. There is still a huge amount of work to be done in that regard.

The final point is on education and training. I urge people not to lose sight of the vocational space. Third level is hugely important, but even today there was an announcement about cuts to post-leaving certificate, PLC, courses. These courses are very important for young people who are not going on to third level but who have an average leaving certificate and want to get on in life. Many of our members are involved in delivering Youthreach and community workshops in conjunction with FÁS or the new structure of education and training boards. With the concept of a European youth guarantee, we want to see more young people having quality options in the education and training areas. We must have vocational spaces, what was seen as traditional FÁS provision, and PLC courses, as well as third level places. Today's news regarding PLCs is very disappointing in that regard.

12:35 pm

Mr. Martin McMullan:

I would like to pick up on a point made by Ms Gildernew. I compliment previous speakers on what they have said. I am delighted Ms Gildernew mentioned the LGBT work that is being done. As part of the current policy in Northern Ireland with regard to education and youth work priorities, it has been suggested that youth work should be confined to those aged 21 and under. As Ms Gildernew said, it sometimes takes young people five years to come out. That gives us another reason to argue in favour of being allowed to continue to work with young people until the age of 25, at least. Given that approximately 60% of LGBT young people do not have a single adult they can talk to, it is not surprising that young gay men are five times more likely to attempt suicide, or that 30% of young people in the LGBT community engage in self-harm. We should acknowledge that. Youth Action Northern Ireland and other organisations like the Rainbow Project are running programmes in the North to deal with these issues. Those who work with LGBT young people help to address issues such as diversity. An expert approach is not required. We need to treat the person like a human being. It is a question of having a humanitarian point of view. We do not need experts who send them to various projects. Those involved in education and youth work often feel they do not have the skills to work with LGBT young people. There is nothing different about them. They have exactly the same needs as other young people, but they feel that extra levels of pressure and suppression are imposed on them.

Deputy Feighan expressed some interest in the work we are doing in the Balkans. Care International is our partner, and that of Youth Work Ireland, in the Balkans. It is a well-recognised organisation that works in areas of conflict. It tries to work at many levels. Approximately six years ago, we embarked on conversations with Care International about the Balkans. At a time when countries like Bosnia, Croatia and Serbia were emerging from conflict, we felt we could do something in the Irish context. I refer to Northern Ireland in particular. It is a question of two areas that are emerging from conflict. We looked at gender-based work and gender-based violence because we felt we had that in common. Much of the work we have done with Mr. McLoughlin in the South has involved looking at the role of young men in violence. We have reflected on the invisibility of women and young women throughout the conflict, when young men were more visible on the streets as defenders of communities and protectors of identity.

When we became aware that a similar concept was being developed in the Balkans, we organised study visits through the British Council and the Youth in Europe programme. We received support from Irish Aid at a later stage. That enabled us to embark on study visits. We went to the Balkans to have conversations and dialogues with practitioners on the ground there. We also discussed policy. The people in question came here subsequently. That has developed into ongoing annual exchanges, whereby young people from Dundalk, Dublin, east Belfast and south Armagh go to the Balkans to meet other young men and compare their experiences of conflict and everyday violence. They have travelled to places like Sarajevo, Vukovar, Belgrade and Zagreb. That has resulted in conferences and seminars on the island of Ireland and in the Balkans. The President of Croatia came to our Belfast offices, which was really exciting. He launched the initiative and gave the programme his endorsement. Our next step is to look at it from a female point of view. We want to work with young women on issues like gender-based violence.

Ms Caroline Redpath:

I want to say a couple of things about third level education. Ms Gildernew spoke about the issue of transport. One of the recommendations made in our report related to the introduction of the iLink card. Other recommendations focused on young people in rural areas and the need to examine how local transport systems can be better integrated with Translink services. We recommended that no young person should live more than two miles from a bus stop. We said that cycling would help young people to be fitter and healthier. Young people have pointed out that safer roads are needed in that context. We are working with the Consumer Council for Northern Ireland to implement a number of our recommendations. We would be keen to get the support of this committee to help that process.

We can work on a number of aspects of the issue of mental health and young people. I refer to the school curriculum, for example. We need to put more pressure on the formal education sector to educate young people about positive mental health, with specific regard to the things young people can do for themselves to ensure they have positive mental health. There should be a particular focus on the activities young people are involved in and on their relationships. We have recently been involved in a couple of initiatives that have focused on the use by young people of social media such as text messaging. When young people become engaged with our programmes, we get their consent to send a positive mental health message to them. We do that on a regular basis. The message could say something as simple as "do something for yourself today". It could be a nice thought about something. We are trying to help young people think about the small things they can do for themselves and about how they engage in their activities and relationships.

I would like to conclude by speaking about third level education. I have already spoken about our apprenticeship programme. The level 3 diploma in youth work that our young people complete is recognised by the University of Ulster. It gives them access to the community youth degree programme. Our work in this area focuses on young people who have not achieved what they might have needed from the formal education system. We try to develop their capacity to get higher education places, which might be limited for a number of reasons. While qualifications are important, we often have to start by developing people's confidence in their ability to access third level education. Many of them are in the first generation of their families to go to university. Their families would not have had a history of going to university. That has been our particular focus in terms of third level education. Obviously, the number of places available to young people is a key issue, particularly in light of budget reductions. We have been campaigning on that issue with a focus on young people who leave the education system without many qualifications. There is a large gap between young people who do well and achieve brilliant things and those who are not in employment, education or training and have a low level of qualifications.

Photo of Jim D'ArcyJim D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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I admire Youth Work Ireland and Youth Action Northern Ireland. More than 350,000 young people in the South are catered for by youth work services. Approximately 1,400 people work in full-time equivalent positions in the youth work sector. There are over 40,000 volunteers in this area, which is a huge amount. I am sure the ratio is the same in the North. Much of this work, although not all of it, is done in deprived communities and with socially disadvantaged young people. Those who provide youth work services are sometimes the only positive role models in these young people's lives. We need to support the two organisations that are represented at today's meeting.

I was very interested to hear Mr. Gilmore mention the mobile youth cafe. There are 70 youth cafes in this country. Some €2 million has been provided in the budget for up to 100 more youth cafes. Would Mr. Gilmore agree that they seem to be taking over from the youth information centres to a certain extent? The youth cafe in my own village, which is near Dundalk, is a very positive thing. I will come back to Dundalk, south Armagh and east Belfast, which have been mentioned.

The members of the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement are quite interested in North-South links. While I was interested to hear what was said about the strategic plan, I would like to hear more about how these links are developing. I know from my own links - I have been working through schools and the horse and dog racing sector - that it is very useful to be able to help youth people in the North and the South to come together. We would be very interested in that.

I saw many young people at the final of the Setanta Cup last year. I am disappointed to learn that the Setanta Cup soccer tournament is in danger of folding. This is a great North-South event. Representatives of the Football Association of Ireland and the Irish Football Association appeared before the committee previously and should be invited to come before us again to give their views on this matter. The Setanta Cup creates a great bond among young people.

12:45 pm

Photo of Seán CroweSeán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome our guests. We could spend the entire morning discussing the impact of cuts on young people. I am impressed with the results achieved by the youth organisations which have come before us. We have heard, for example, that 86% of youth work apprentices secure employment and that 72% of young unemployed people on the REACH training programme progress to employment. These are positive and impressive figures.

I am surprised at the high proportion of young people in the North who are not on the electoral register. Is the position similar in the South? The political parties have tried everything to persuade young people to register for elections, from knocking on doors to canvassing in colleges. According to the survey mentioned, young people feel disillusioned, disenfranchised and disconnected from politics, but they are also interested in politics. This appears to be a contradiction.

Comhairle na nÓg is a youth organisation in the South. Is there a similar organisation active in the North? It is important to have young people meeting and talking to one another. It will be the younger generation, rather than my generation, that will advance reconciliation and peace building. I hope we will be able to build on the changes made. While there is common agreement that this is the way forward, increasing co-operation will be a challenge. It will be achieved by spending small but important sums of money to foster such engagement.

What are our guests' views on getting young people involved in politics? How can young people be persuaded to register for elections? It has been suggested PRSI numbers could be used to automatically register voters. Has this proposal been discussed? Youth groups in my area have been involved in trying to persuade young people to register.

I am not surprised young people are afraid to go into other communities. This is a generational issue and I suspect family members tell young people not to go into other communities. Young people in parts of Tallaght in my constituency are nervous about going into other estates. For example, young people in Jobstown will be nervous about going to Killinarden and vice versa. One will hear young people who are hoping to get a house say they do not want to move to a particular area, which may be only across the road. The reason may be that they would feel uncomfortable living in the area or do not have family links with it. While the problem is bigger in the North, it is also present in the South.

One of the positive outcomes of the peace process is that young people from different communities are starting to go out with each other and breaking taboos by going back and forth between communities. While there have been difficulties in recent weeks, we can move on.

I congratulate the youth organisations on the work they are doing. If they have suggestions on what Members can do to assist them, I would like to hear them, especially with regard to structures. The peace process has not been successful in including civic society, especially young people. The Oireachtas has opened up to Comhairle na nÓg. Could the Assembly take a similar step?

Photo of Aodhán Ó RíordáinAodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin North Central, Labour)
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I apologise for being a little late. Please feel free to interrupt if I ask a question that has been answered.

I am stunned by the figure showing that 56% of those aged between 17 and 25 years in Northern Ireland are not registered to vote. I spoke to a trade unionist in Australia where voting is compulsory. While I have never advocated compulsory voting, it could be a long-term strategy because the person with whom I spoke told me it worked in Australia. Political systems gravitate towards those who tend to vote, namely, the middle class, the wealthy and older people. Finance is never directed towards areas and age groups which do not use their franchise to the same extent. Is there potential to have a conversation about moving towards an understanding of how different international electoral models have worked? The trade unionist indicated that voter turnout in the most disadvantaged areas which was traditionally poor had changed completely and that the political system was moving towards meeting the needs of this section of society now that it was much more engaged. I ask our guests to comment on this issue.

On the attitudes of young people to voting, I am involved in a project with transition year students in local secondary schools. It is related to the constitutional convention and known as the "Convention in Your Classroom". I find it remarkable that students in only one of the schools I have visited as part of the project are in favour of lowering the voting age. They are all au fait with social issues and happy to voice opinions on them. However, they told me that young people under the age of 18 years did not understand or have an interest in political issues, although they tended to be more in tune with what was going on when they reached 18 years. I was surprised that young people of 16 and 17 years were not eager to get involved in politics and have their voices heard. Perhaps there is a disconnect between them and the political system. The problem that arises when the political system tries to fill this gap is the contamination effect created by political parties becoming involved in voter registration. There is a danger that politicisation will take on a party political dimension.

I am not sure if the issue of integrated schooling has been discussed. The committee has received a number of presentations on the issue and I am aware the various churches are not keen on the idea. We also received a presentation from loyalist community leaders, one of whom was strongly opposed to the idea of integrated schooling. While the Republic does not have a great record on integrated schooling, we are moving towards a model of diverse school patronage. Is the fact that children from different religions do not attend the same schools part of the problem in the North?

On the most recent violence and the discovery that 13 year old children were involved, time and again we have heard that those in their mid-teens and early 20s have no idea what happened during the Troubles and have a sense that they missed out on some of the action. I am not trying to be dismissive or insulting, but that is the feedback we received from some community leaders. I ask the delegation to comment.

Literacy, knowledge and learning are surely the most fundamental building blocks for anyone to be able to engage in the labour market or improve himself or herself in education. The statistics for literacy in the North are probably similar to those in the South, especially for young men who have a difficulty in this regard. Perhaps the delegation might comment.

The sexualisation and commercialisation of young women is not a problem exclusive to Northern Ireland or the Republic. Having taught in a primary school for girls for 11 years, it is my view that young girls' sense of themselves and their place in society has regressed. They are very much aware of their sexual power at a much earlier age. Commercial interests demand that childhood be shortened in order that they can make money out of children as commercial entities. A 12 year old who should have five or six years of childhood left is now deciding which boy band member she fancies, which make-up she should wear and what colour her hair should be. Does the delegation wish to comment on the sexualisation of young women and the fact that they are contextualising themselves in terms of their sexual power? I find that women and young girls are in a less positive place than they were ten, 15 or 20 years ago when, for example, Mary Robinson was elevated to the Presidency. I do not know if the organisations have tapped into that area or if they have a comment on it. I thank the Chairman for the opportunity to contribute.

12:55 pm

Photo of Joe O'ReillyJoe O'Reilly (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I apologise for the fact that we have been in and out this morning owing to votes in the House and the fact that we have had to meet ICBAN Limited, another cross-Border organisation. I welcome the delegates. It is great to have this exchange of views and to commend and salute their work. President Higgins' recent initiative of regional assemblies of young people culminating in an assembly within Áras an Uachtaráin was hugely successful. What was remarkable at the last session was that the young people advanced a knowledge-based excellent set of proposals. That makes me believe, as Mr. Michael McLoughlin said, that young people should have an input into the constitutional convention. I concur with that view and wish him well. If the committee can help in any way it would be delighted to do so. The question is how to organise the input. Any of the young who spoke at the final session in Áras an Uachtaráin who represented the regions could reasonably make a presentation of great excellence and maturity to the constitutional convention. In fact it might well put some of the adult contributions in the shade. As I had a personal interest in it, I watched the entire proceedings, which were excellent. Linked to that area is Comhairle na nÓg, Dáil na nÓg, about which Deputy Crowe asked if there were similar assemblies in Northern Ireland.

There is great potential in all of these organisations. I have personal experience as I have a teenage son who is involved with Comhairle na nÓg which has been transformational and excellent for him. He has benefited hugely from it. It is very enjoyable for him and his associates. They have a round of social activities related to it as they do active community work.

It is clear to me as a parent and a former teacher and from observation and through constituency work that young people need confidence, that is, inner confidence and self belief. That is how to tackle substance abuse and many of the issues correctly identified by Deputy Ó Ríordáin about the position of young women and the attempt to exploit them commercially. Confidence is a major issue. All of one's activities help to contribute to building confidence which is a major issue. That leads to my last point, that the enemy of confidence is youth unemployment, the crisis with which we are confronted which is at 30% and is a huge challenge to us all. Without wishing to be political, I commend the Minister on job activation and the fact that 10,000 new places are available for community employment, through social employment schemes and so on provided for in the budget. I hope the delegates will tap into that area and have an input into identifying schemes in which young people can be involved and an involvement in the running of youth cafés. For example, a young person on a community employment scheme could assist with the running of a youth café. That has been an issue in some instances. Senator Jim D'Arcy mentioned the huge significance of youth cafés and their attempts to deal with substance abuse, the confidence and so on. There has been an issue in a few places in regard to continuing to run youth cafés. There may be potential within the community employment schemes or the social employment schemes to do something in that regard. I would be interested to hear a comment on that.

My last point, although basic, merits repeating on every occasion, that is, that the young need confidence. That is the reason I was delighted with the impact of Comhairle na nÓg for my son. If they have confidence everything else will follow.

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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We are under pressure timewise. We have hurled a ball in there which probably does not work. I suggest one person respond from each group but if somebody else wants to come in, we will not be too strict.

Mr. Patrick Burke:

I will keep my response as succinct as possible. Senator Jim D'Arcy kicked off the issue. Clearly he has a deep knowledge of the sector, the sheer number of young people who are engaged and the number of volunteers and staff. The sector is giving value for money. I am aware of a discussion in the Seanad last night on a report produced by the National Youth Council of Ireland which studied the value for money of youth work. For very little money in the overall scheme of things all of these programmes are delivered locally in all communities.

On the issue of youth cafés, obviously we welcome the investment from the Government. Unfortunately, it is primarily capital funding. One of the key challenges, as Deputy O'Reilly mentioned, is how to staff these and resource our volunteers. Organisations such as ourselves put a good deal of time and energy into making sure that volunteers are Garda vetted and that child protection measures are in place. Obviously that is critical but it comes at a cost.

In regard to the strategic plan which we share, it is a great idea and we are delighted to have it but perhaps the committee might think about how it could help us resource it a little more. Again we are talking about relatively small amounts of money but were the two organisations able to meet and plan much more strategically and in detail, the effect at grassroots level would bear fruit. There is money available but it is around the grassroots work. If we were able to strategise around that area with a little money at management or organisational level that would make a huge difference.

Mobility is a critical issue. We must find ways of promoting mobility between both jurisdictions among young people. Something like the Irish youth music awards is one way of doing that where we have bands coming from North and South. It is not just the banks it includes all their crew, their background and their family. That programme is delivered for about €30,000 and there are 10,000 young people involved in it. Is that not value for money? That gets people moving and it gets people speaking to each other. It creates friendships and all kinds of co-operation. That is one example of the huge impact of a small amount of investment. As a sector we are operating with between 40% and 50% less funding than we had four or five years ago. That has a huge impact on the sector. We are awake to the realities of life. Ireland is not the same any more. We have huge challenges. We are doing our best to deliver on a shoestring. The outcomes are there to be seen, they are empirically verifiable. I hand over to my colleague.

Mr. John Gilmore:

Just to pick up on a few issues. Deputy O'Reilly raised the issue of the importance of confidence building in young people. I can tell the committee quite confidently that as a 25 year old man, I would not be able to sit in front of the committee were it not for the interventions of youth work. I am sure Mr. Patrick Burke would have said the same thing 30 years ago in his youth club. It provides the mechanisms and the confidence. The youth workers with whom we work are doing fantastic work. In regard to youth information centres, an issue raised by Senator D'Arcy, they are hugely important. In Donegal we have seen the amalgamation of youth cafés and youth information. In some ways many of our colleagues in the sector are not engaged in youth information as their core work. It is the core work of Youth Work Ireland. We are the largest provider and the largest youth work organisation and it is a core and a key element. One of the arguments is that young people get information online. Therefore, why does one need to support youth information work? There is a huge amount of information online that is not very good information on what youth information co-ordinators and workers can do. Working in youth cafés or in integrated services might not necessarily be the old hatch system we do not operate any more in Youth Work Ireland but they are able to sign post them to good information. In regard to online work we have a strategic partnership with another national organisation, SpunOut, of which the committee may be aware. We engage with it at national level to ensure that work goes on in this world wide web era.

With regard to how to get young people registered to vote, SpunOut's initiative coming up to the children's rights referendum worked well. It registered 3,000 young people through that campaign. Deputy Ó Ríordáin spoke about the fantastic work being done with the schools with regard to the constitutional convention. Our Vote@16 approach is very different. We get very different feedback from young people. A national campaign is being run currently by the National Youth Council of Ireland at Vote@16, in co-operation with European counterparts through the European Youth Forum. The message from that is very much that young people are in favour of voting at 16. There are many other issues we could discuss in detail, but I will hand over now if anybody else wants to add to what I have said.

1:05 pm

Mr. Michael McLoughlin:

Legislators could decide to permit voting at 16 for the next European and local elections without a constitutional referendum. Therefore, if they want to see how it works, they could try it out then. That power exists and there is no need for constitutional change. The Constitution only covers Dáil and presidential elections. That is an idea and initiative that could be tested in the field. If we go for voting rights at 16, everyone will get registered, because it will be done through school. Therefore, young people would not have to go through the current obstacle course to get registered. Everyone would register and vote in school and the turnout would be quite high.

Ms Caroline Redpath:

To pick up on what Mr. Burke said with regard to value for money, we can do a significant amount with just a small amount of money. In the voluntary youth sector, our organisation brings in £9.32 for every £1 we get of public funding. We are an ambitious organisation, like Youth Work Ireland. We are ambitious for young people and need to be in the context of the challenges facing young people currently.

In terms of cross-Border work, we work together with Youth Work Ireland. Much of our work is in the context of the movement of populations of young people into other communities to develop their confidence. Self-confidence is a big issue for young people. We have been recruiting young people through job centres recently for one of our employability programmes. They felt that lack of confidence was the biggest factor in stopping them from getting work. They did not consider qualifications or education as so significant. Confidence in themselves and what they could do was the major factor.

With regard to engaging young people in democracy, we are very interested in the Rock the Vote campaign that was part of the presidential elections in America. We have got involved with that and believe it would be wonderful to bring that campaign to Ireland, North and South. That campaign engages pop stars like Madonna and various others to make voting sexy and to engage young people. These are things we have to do. I was sent to the Department of Regional Development to promote cycling for young people, but that, like voting, is not seen as something cool. Perhaps "cool" is a better word to use than "sexy".

On the sexualisation of young women, there are a couple of factors involved here. There is a vacuum in the North in terms of women and leadership. Obviously, Michelle Gildernew is the exception in terms of a positive role model for young women. We take various approaches in working with young men and women in terms of gender stereotyping. We try to educate them through the use of positive images. We do this in a practical way, by having them create positive images of young men and women that depart from the gender stereotype, leaving out the make-up and other ways the media suggest they should portray themselves.

On the issue of compulsory voting, rather than persuading people to agree to compulsory voting, we need to nurture young people earlier. We need to engage with them in their communities through local campaigns and to inform them of what is going on and deal with local issues like transport. On schools, I agree these should be integrated. This is a no-brainer. Young people are growing up segregated and are not meeting each other until they go into higher education. That is crazy and has a major impact on relationships in our communities.

Mr. Martin McMullan:

Youth Work Ireland is under pressure to deliver targets. There is pressure on us to get young people into employment, get them educated and get them into third level education and so on. We talk about youth cafés, drama, music and all the things young people love to do, but we are not getting to do that because as a deliverer of youth work, our work is focused on that target-driven culture. This places pressure on people to become something rather than just on being together and enjoying being together. A recent BBC Radio 2 programme, "Pause for Thought", pointed out that the purpose of life is having a purpose. Young people just enjoy being together and being happy. That happiness, contentment and positivity breeds the sort of confidence we have mentioned and inspires them to get involved in other things, like education and employment. As a youth sector, we need to be more inspirational. We must get out there and have positive conferences and seminars rather than heavy doom and gloom. We must be more positive in the sector and inspire people to move forward for a better future for this island.

Photo of Mary WhiteMary White (Fianna Fail)
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I just wish to make an observation on the sexualisation of young women. I agree with what is being done in this regard. I cannot speak for the North with regard to third level education of men and women, but in Ireland significant numbers of women are entering third level of education. Increasingly we see young women speaking on political issues on television panels. We have a coterie of highly educated women we did not have previously. This is fascinating. Many young women in secondary schools now want to go to Cambridge. This is fantastic.

I accept there is sexualisation in the context of what people wear, but young women are ambitious. Education is what it is about if we want to create self-esteem. In general, I do not see sexualisation as a major concern, because there is evidence on television and radio constantly that our young women are highly educated and professional and have opinions on every issue. There were not so many there before. I admit there is a deficit of women in politics and there are only two women in the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party, which has 33 members altogether. We do not have role models there. However, I am not overly concerned as I do not see us being able to change early sexualisation.

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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Thank you. I am delighted everybody was able to be here. It is good to see the dynamic and to see the different dynamics between youth work in Northern Ireland and southern Ireland. Northern Ireland was ahead of the posse in terms of professional youth work courses, and Jordanstown would have been a pioneer in that area. Many youth workers from the South had to go to Jordanstown. That has all changed, thank God. It is good there is interaction now.

If there is anything with which our guests feel we as a committee can help in regard to issues around sectarianism and the work our guests are doing on a cross-community and jurisdictional level, our door is always open to them. Thank you all very much.

Ms Caroline Redpath:

The thing is to keep the focus on young people in terms of the challenges. We would encourage the committee to keep that focus on young people whenever it deals with issues that affect them.

Mr. John Gilmore:

I thank the committee for having us and we would welcome any members who want to visit local youth services within their areas to contact us. We could open gates for them. Many members know those involved in their local services, but we can help with introductions if necessary. With regard to savings, all Members of the Oireachtas received a comprehensive review of expenditure from Youth Work Ireland on savings and on protecting the youth work sector. We highlighted savings of up to €1 billion, through investment in youth work. The Seanad would have heard about the latest NYCI report. If Members want to discuss any of these issues, our door is always open - 20 Dominick Street.

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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Thank you.

Sitting suspended at 1.30 p.m. and resumed at 1.35 p.m.