Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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I remind members to switch off their mobile telephones. There are no apologies.

This meeting has been convened to allow the committee to consider a supplementary Estimate for the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, Vote 25. I welcome the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan and his officials Mr. Maurice Coughlan, finance officer, Mr. Aidan O'Reilly, principal officer, and Ms Sarah O'Halloran, higher executive officer, community division.

I remind members that in considering the Estimates we should consider the expenditure of the money and the outputs that are to be achieved by that expenditure. We also have a duty to establish that moneys are being spent wisely and prudently and we also have a responsibility to consider what the Government aims to achieve and the impact of its expenditure on services provided.

I propose to begin with the Minister's opening statement. I will then call on the party spokespersons in the following order: Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin, the Technical Group, Fine Gael and the Labour Party. I will take questions from each individually, following which I will take the remaining questions together. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I thank members for the opportunity to present and discuss the proposed supplementary Estimate for my Department's Vote for 2012 for which I am seeking approval.

This supplementary Estimate refers to the provision of funding for the EU co-funded programme for peace and reconciliation 2007-13 - known as PEACE III. PEACE III runs from 2007 to 2013 and is co-funded with the EU, the Northern Ireland Assembly with the support of the British Government and the Irish Government. The full programme cost is €333 million over its seven year lifetime and Ireland's contribution equates to 36% of this cost, some €120 million.

Of this Irish contribution, 54% is reimbursed by the EU - approximately €65 million.

While responsibility for the funding of the PEACE programme is shared with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, my Department is the main contributor on the Irish side, with an investment of €100 million over the lifetime of the programme. PEACE III builds on the work and accomplishments of its predecessors, PEACE I which started in 1995 and PEACE II which ran from 2000 to 2006. The overall objectives of PEACE III are to reinforce progress towards a peaceful and stable society, and to promote reconciliation in Northern Ireland and the Border region. The programme is now in its final phase, with almost all funding committed to projects, and with a number of the projects having reached completion. As is common with programmes of this type, PEACE III addresses a number of themes in a range of areas.

Members may be familiar with some of the larger projects that have been co-funded by my Department under the programme, such as the award-winning Peace Bridge in Derry, officially opened in June 2011 and the Castle Saunderson International Scout Centre in Cavan which had its official opening by President Higgins in August this year. Both these projects were funded under Theme 2.1: Creating Shared Spaces, which focuses on tackling the problems of separation of communities within society and addressing the underlying problems of sectarianism, racism and prejudice by encouraging the development of shared spaces that are open to all.

However, PEACE III also funds smaller projects at a local level. Theme 1.1: Building Positive Relations at the Local Level provides funding to local authorities in Northern Ireland and the Border region to implement local peace plans. Through these plans, the local authorities channel the funding to local, community-focused projects on both sides of the Border, which work towards the creation of a more peaceful and tolerant society. These smaller projects have a strong focus on embedding into local communities the tools and knowledge required to build a more inclusive and integrated community environment.

As well as the local projects, the programme also supports a number of strategic collaboration projects implemented at a regional level. They establish meaningful, cross-community and cross-Border initiatives that improve trust and tolerance. An example is the work of Groundwork Northern Ireland which has received PEACE III funding for a regeneration project focusing on the peace walls in Belfast. This project has established what is termed a "peace gate" in the peace wall that divides Alexandra Park in North Belfast. This is the only known public park in western Europe with a wall dividing it into two separate entities, so it is good that action is being taken to counter this legacy of sectarian strife.

The work under Theme 1.2 deals with acknowledging and dealing with the past. It supports public efforts to remember all those affected by conflict, including the recording of the complex history and experience of Northern Ireland and the Irish Border counties. Projects funded range from trauma counselling for victims and survivors of the conflict to engaging participants in dialogue about the past in order to build positive relationships and positive communities. To date, more than 33,000 people have attended events assisting victims and survivors, while more than 22,000 people have attended conflict resolution workshops.

We cannot underestimate the value of peace on the island of Ireland. It was long-desired and hard-won and requires ongoing investment and support to ensure that it becomes an embedded part of life on both sides of the Border. By the end of this year, my Department will have invested €58 million in PEACE III funding since 2007 to help ensure that this happens. By the end of the programme, this investment will have increased to €100 million. This is tangible evidence of the Government’s commitment to maintaining strong North-South relations, as outlined in the programme for Government.

For the programme to continue its work, Ireland must continue to provide its share of the financial investment. As I mentioned, Ireland contributes 36% of the overall programme cost. Commitments under the programme were set out and agreed at the outset. This is a demand-led programme within overall ceilings, with drawdown requests being made as the committed funding is spent. An initial 2012 allocation in my Department’s Vote was set at €7.978 million, in the context of the severe constraints on the capital and current sides of the Vote, as well as the very difficult economic situation at local level. Notwithstanding the difficult economic climate, drawdown requests amounting to €16 million have been received in 2012 which must be met. In order to meet these funding requirements for 2012, it has been agreed with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform that the monies refunded by the EU in respect of my Department’s programme expenditure will be made available to meet our continuing programme commitments, instead of being receivable by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform as has been the case up to now. This will allow additional expenditure on the programme from the Vote.

Accordingly, the Supplementary Estimate adds €8 million to the gross spending Estimate for the Department and this is balanced by an additional €8 million in EU receipts that we are receiving this year. This will allow total expenditure on the programme to reach €16 million in 2012 without affecting the net Vote position. The additional spending is balanced by equivalent additional income. This provision, combined with that already made in my Department’s funding envelopes, will provide sufficiently for the programme this year and the same approach will be taken for the remaining years of the programme.

I thank the committee for taking this Supplementary Estimate today. As I have outlined, the proposal before us today is necessary to give effect to revised financial arrangements to fulfil our commitments to PEACE III. It is important, even in these very difficult times, that we maintain our contribution towards achieving peace, stability and reconciliation on the island.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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I shall call the spokespersons in the order I outlined, starting with Deputy Cowen.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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May I defer for a moment?

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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Yes. The next speaker is Deputy Stanley.

Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister for outlining the funding for PEACE III.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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I ask members to turn off their mobile telephones.

Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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It is a work in progress and while the money in-----

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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I again ask members to turn off their mobile telephones, as the recording cannot take place until the interference stops. Tablets may also cause interference.

Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the Minister's opening remarks. It is a work in progress. Substantial funds have been invested into the various PEACE programmes over the years. That money has not been wasted and there have been benefits in improving the climate of reconciliation and co-operation between both communities particularly at grass roots level but also the North-South all-island level. It is good that we have that level of co-operation and we need to continue to work on it. The last week shows that we have a distance to go and that there are still issues with sectarianism and with what used to be called the siege mentality, which still exists to some extent. In a state that was built on a sectarian head count that is not surprising. We must work to try to ameliorate that. Reconciliation is the most important issue and a considerable amount of work remains to be done there.

I have visited some of the projects that have been funded over the years and the real value comes from the small local projects, including the small joint ventures North and South. The Minister mentioned the small initiatives at local authority level and along the Border corridor, which have done much good work. I was a local authority member in the past and I know there has been great co-operation between local authorities along what is referred to as the Border corridor, which has been very positive. All parties have contributed generously to that.

I have a question on the oversight of how the money is spent. It is important that we get value for money and get the maximum results for every euro spent.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The SEUPB has full oversight and has a significant number of staff to monitor projects at local and regional level. I agree with the Deputy that it has provided good value for money, particularly the local projects. I have seen some of them and they certainly get engagement from the local communities across the board and make a big impact at community level. The SEUPB manages the projects as well as providing oversight.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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My questions pick up where Deputy Stanley finished on oversight. It would be quite useful for us to get the detail. We are informed that the proposed contribution will enable fulfilment of contractual obligations arising in 2012. I would like to know what the contractual obligations are. Unless we have that detail, which may well be available but which I have not seen, it is difficult to evaluate. Given what has happened in the past week or so, we cannot but be aware that the peace is still fragile and needs to be worked on. It would be quite useful to understand what exactly is coming out of it.

Will this Supplementary Estimate be the only one put in front us? Last year there was funding taken out of the homeless fund for an oversight commitment and it occurred quite late in the day as well.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Is Deputy Catherine Murphy referring to one on climate change?

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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Was it? No doubt the Minister had an obligation to the commitment in terms of the climate change element of whatever the Department oversees, but when one sees a man dying in the doorway, as somebody did on Friday last, one wants to ensure that whatever is available in that homeless fund is spent. I merely draw attention to the matter because that happened last year and I would not like to think that we went the full year without spending in that area.

I received from the Minister a reply to a parliamentary question on 27 November on the budget and Supplementary Estimates which stated that there was €895 million in respect of the budget, current spending was running close to profile but the capital spending on housing, water and rural development areas was behind profile. Is that likely to come in front of us or alter before the end of the year, or is this the last Supplementary Estimate we will see?

On climate change, I am aware that-----

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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The Supplementary Estimate is germane to PEACE III. I have let the Deputy speak about other matters.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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It is about the budget as well. There is €895 million.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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It is not. I am not being pedantic with the Deputy. I will let her speak because, in fairness, she is very co-operative and, to put it mildly, we owe her minutes following her outstanding co-operation one day when there were spectacular instances where there was not such co-operation. I ask her to stick to PEACE III and with the broader parameters of the budget.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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The broader parameters of the budget are the €895 million, which on 27 November was the detail of expenditure from the Department, not all of which had been fully committed. It is valid to ask whether all of that will be spent by the end of the year or whether there will be a further meeting next week to deal with other issues. The spending of this money is not a private process after all; it is a public process. It is valid to ask, when the Minister is here, whether that money will be fully spent or whether there will be a further meeting to disburse funds in a different way than we had anticipated.

Will the Minister also be back before us to give an assessment on the Doha deliberations and whether the Government would have seen what transpired there as satisfactory? Clearly, next year is approaching and we need to have some idea. It is useful to be able to ask that now. I ask, only so that it is in the public arena, that he include the amount of money that was spent going and the number of staff. I see no reason-----

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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I will cut across Deputy Murphy now.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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I see no reason that should not be included in the public arena.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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When the Minister is responding, I ask him to stick to the PEACE project.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I will do my best to comply with the Chair's wishes. Almost all of the €333 million of the programme value is contractually committed. I will not be here again next week moving money from one place to another. There is work in progress.

I can give Deputy Murphy an indication of how things are going in the Department. No matter where we go in this Department, we give good value for money. The rural water scheme and housing budget will be fully spent. There will be some savings on the major capital water programmes because some local authorities may not have started on time, as happens every year. However, that will be made up next year.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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Will it be carried over?

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Some of that will be carried over into next year. The projects, some of which are in Deputy Murphy's constituency and are very important, will be proceeding.

Leader funding is tied in with the European Union funding arrangements and we must draw it down. We have got a reassessment of the agreement with the European Commission on Leader and we are now able to draw down 85% of the funds from the European Union where it used be 55%. That has made an impact and given us some savings as well.

We have provided additional moneys as well this year for landfill remediation, which are matters that have been subject to European Court of Justice infringements and on which I am trying my best to catch up with the legacy issues of 31 European Court of Justice judgments against Ireland in a number of areas, including groundwater quality. We need money for those and we are spending those as the invoices come in or else the courts make the decisions in lump sum fines or daily fines against us. That answers the questions.

On the Doha conference on climate change, am I before the committee next week?

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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Yes, to speak about the Irish Presidency and other related matters.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Including that.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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I asked the Minister about the detail on the fulfilment of the contractual obligations of the PEACE III programme.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Almost all the €333 million is contractually committed.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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Does the Minister know the detail of what we are contractually committed to?

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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We can supply the Deputy with the detail of the projects.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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I thank the Minister.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I have one or two questions on what the Minister brought before us today. First, he might clarify that his initial Estimate was €8 million for what was to be paid out under the scheme over the year. No more than what the Minister stated about the Leader programme, is it the case that the drawdowns of previous years came into effect in the past year and, as a result, there was an outlay of €16 million, €8 million of which is due back in the next calendar year relating to this year? Is it mainly an accountancy exercise?

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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It is. We are getting receipts from the European Commission for various ongoing works on the PEACE programme and we are spending that now rather than waiting for the receipts to come in. We have agreement for that from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I concur and agree with the route the Minister is taking and I have no difficulty in that regard. Like others, I concur with what has been said and agree with the concept of this process of the PEACE programme. It has gone according to the expectations envisaged in 2007.

There is one area on which I would ask the Minister to be mindful and use whatever influence he can, especially in the context of his Government position, that is, the acknowledging of the past and dealing with it. As the Minister stated, the programme looks to record of the complex history and experience of Northern Ireland and the Irish Border counties, and ranges from trauma counselling for victims and survivors to all those who have been injured, affected and maimed, physically and mentally. There are many victims of that unfortunate and sorry saga and many families have yet to get closure in this regard by virtue of remains that are still missing. I would ask that the Minister use whatever influence he can to highlight further the plight of those affected by that sorry saga in our history. I would hope he would use whatever influence he can to bring some form of closure for families who are still awaiting the remains of their loved ones as a result of that conflict.

The other point I wanted to make was on the Estimate of the Department and the spending that has been incurred during the course of the year. I recently tabled a question to various Departments on consultancy fees for expertise engaged by those Departments.

The overall figure is approximately €6.5 million, almost 50% of which was spent by the Department. Is this as a result of the amount of work on Minister's desk, whether with regard to property tax, Irish Water or the changes in local government? Is it the case the largesse in the coming year will not be anything like what it has been, particularly with regard to the Department?

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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We have reduced considerably the amount of money spent on consultancy in recent years. We provided money for consultancy on Irish Water, and PricewaterhouseCoopers won that particular contract which cost approximately €100,000. We also use consultants with regard to infringement cases at the European Court of Justice as we regularly need expertise to deal with these court cases. This is paid from the environment fund. An evaluation of the property tax was also carried out.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As I stated, I do not doubt the amount of work on the Minister's desk and the commitment he gave to address these issues, no matter how we might disagree politically on how the Minister went about it, which was his prerogative and I accept it. A concerted effort has been made by the Government to reduce these figures but one can argue whether the overall figure of €6.5 million represents progress. A total of 50% of this figure related to the Department. Will we see a vast reduction in the coming year in the percentage spend by the Department vis-à-vis other Departments?

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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A significant level of expertise is required to deal with European Court of Justice judgments, and the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government has lost 31 cases. This has been a significant problem for me to deal with. A number of planning inquiries were held and planning issues arose in Wicklow and other places. A level of expertise is required to explore these ongoing issues. This must be paid for and invoices have been issued. Mr. Seamus Woulfe, senior counsel, has been dealing with these matters on behalf of the Department.

I share the Deputy's concern about reducing consultancy fees as much as we possibly can, but nevertheless we cannot expose the Irish taxpayer and the Department to judgments of the European Court of Justice without having the necessary expertise. We cannot cover every aspect of every issue in-house so we must obtain the necessary services required in the marketplace and, unfortunately, they cost money.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister mentioned the situation in Wicklow. Will he inform the committee on a future date of the progress on this issue? Is it being handled by the Minister or the Minister of State? It is with regard to various allegations being made.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Much has been said publicly and otherwise about it which has not been true. We decided to engage a senior counsel to conduct a thorough investigation and the report will be available shortly to the Minister of State, Deputy O'Sullivan.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the witnesses and I am delighted all parties in Northern Ireland have come together and are demonstrating their broad commitment to the peace process. Various bodies have been established which include politicians from Northern Ireland and this jurisdiction and reports are laid before the Assembly and the Oireachtas. There is a consensus process involving all political strands in Northern Ireland and this jurisdiction.

The G8 summit will be held in Enniskillen and I was in the Dáil when the Taoiseach, in response to a query from the Opposition, stated he will be invited during the course of the summit by the British Prime Minister, Mr. Cameron. Our presidency of the EU will begin on 1 January 2013. Do we have initiatives to bring EU events to the Border region during the course of Ireland's Presidency? We have very fine venues and it would be important-----

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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Does the Deputy have somewhere in particular in mind?

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I have many in mind. I will not say what the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, stated last week.

I acknowledge the significant contribution the Taoiseach has made to non-governmental organisations. A group from my constituency of Longford-Westmeath met the Taoiseach and he brought them into Government Buildings. They were very appreciative of the interest he showed in what they do in central Belfast. This type of co-operation is very important and it should be funded. Will the Minister elaborate on whether funding will be available for non-governmental organisations to build relationships with their counterparts in Northern Ireland? These include library boards and historical societies. It would be important to work in this area. We also need to develop tourism, roads and planning on an all-Ireland basis. It happens in some cases but we need to accelerate the process. Priority must be given to it because much damage was done to communities and parishes in the Border area. It is important we build infrastructure, particularly where it is light years behind. I hope funding will be provided for this. We should not make these communities suffer more than they did during the Troubles.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Department will provide €100 million out of €333 million for PEACE III so we are making a contribution. With regard to engagements during the Presidency, the Deputy will have to speak to the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade.

Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I welcome the Minister. It is timely the Supplementary Estimate is coming before the committee because, like many, we thought the horrors in Northern Ireland were behind us but we have seen the recent riots in Belfast and other areas. It is time we refocused. Those involved in what has been happening on the streets of Belfast in recent days are from areas of high and long-term unemployment. Although we have problems in our own economy, I would hate to see us slipping back from the Good Friday Agreement and no longer concentrating on the problems in the North. We have come a long way but we could slip back easily and quickly. Therefore I very much welcome the Estimate and the focus shown by the Minister in bringing it forward. I thank the Minister.

Michelle Mulherin (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister and his officials. The Leader programme is very important in rural Ireland and is a great source of assistance in rural development for business and community ideas. However, I have very grave concerns about the dissemination of Leader funding in Mayo. There were three Leader companies in Mayo but only one of them is operating. MFG went to the wall and the Mayo North East Leader Partnership is the subject of a governance investigation. I accept this, and I know it takes time for investigations to deal with matters appropriately and to follow due process. With MFG gone, no Leader money is being disseminated to Gaeltacht areas in the county.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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I must intercede to state we are discussing the PEACE III programme and, strictly speaking, only members of the select committee should speak so Deputy Mulherin is in breach of procedure.

Michelle Mulherin (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am referring to Leader funding to which the Minister also referred.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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If Deputy Mulherin asks the question, the Minister will respond.

Michelle Mulherin (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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For the past year no money has gone to the area covered by the Mayo North East Leader Partnership. People are waiting for payments, and some payments have been rejected where work has been carried out. Ordinary people are owed money but we are not able to access Leader funding.

No new applications can be made. I respect due process, but why can another vehicle not be put in place to ensure the people of these areas are not denied access to Leader funding? We know there is a time span of four years for current Leader funding. It is imperative the Minister decides to do something in this regard.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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I ask the Minister to bear in mind the purpose of the meeting.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I acknowledge that Deputy Mulherin has taken licence but I had better clarify the position on the Leader programme. Nobody would expect the Minister to condone the malpractice activities of Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta, MFG, a private company which had to be liquidated. In recent months the neighbouring Leader companies have taken to providing the necessary assistance for processing applications on behalf of the Department. There is no reason that projects in areas that were formerly funded by MFG cannot be put through the designated Leader companies in those areas. I am very familiar with north-east Mayo. There are concerns about the irregularities in the MFG company. It certainly has had an impact on the funding of projects but also, as the Deputy said, it is slowing down the necessary projects which can be submitted for approval. We will reach closure on that issue in the very near future. As the Deputy pointed out, we have had to go through due process. I share the Deputy's concern about the delay but not only is the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government involved, but also the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and the European Commission. The oversight and audit division has had to investigate these matters thoroughly to ensure European taxpayers' money is protected and the irregularities dealt with. I can assure the Deputy that these matters will be brought to a head in the coming days.

Tony McLoughlin (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister and his officials to the meeting. Both Leader programmes are working very well in my constituency of Sligo-North Leitrim. It would be unfortunate that we would all be affected as a result of some areas not working as they should. The areas in communities along the Border are working very well. All the moneys have been well-spent. That is the feedback I am getting from both counties, Sligo and Leitrim. I hope our area will not be affected by mistakes made in other counties. The suggestion, that local authorities would administer the Leader programme, will not achieve anything.

I am in a Border constituency. On Thursday, I will host a group of people from ICBAN, which is working very well with many projects along the Border. These projects are vital to Fermanagh, Sligo and Leitrim. I know the projects that have been highlighted and promoted by ICBAN and the local authorities have achieved substantial investment in infrastructure in recent years. I thank the Minister and his officials for that.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The ICBAN cross-Border partnership projects come under INTERREG funding. They are doing very valuable work by funding these projects. We will be spending more money on the Leader programme next year so the people of Sligo-Leitrim as well as everywhere else will get an allocation in January.

Michelle Mulherin (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Not unless the situation in MFG is sorted.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy cannot hold a Minister responsible for the activities of private companies. That is the reason for the reform of local government and reform of community development bodies from 2014 and beyond.

Tony McLoughlin (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Can the funding be transferred to the neighbouring constituency?

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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More money.

Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I did not think we would wander into Leader funding.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Neither did I.

Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Seeing that the Chairman allowed that-----

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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Please put your question, Deputy.

Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I am seeing the benefits of Leader funding throughout the country, especially the elements of the €52.8 million that come through the Leader programme for social regeneration. The community halls are very much needed in rural areas. Will the Minister note that all funding for urban areas has been suspended? Will he consider the possibility of funding urban areas, because we also need capital for social and community infrastructure similar to what is being funded through the €52.8 million?

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Even with my best efforts, I doubt I will be able to include Dublin South-East under the rural development programme.

Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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This is not a joke. What we have seen is that there is funding for community infrastructure throughout the country. Urban areas, not only in Dublin but also in Cork, Limerick and elsewhere, have significant social problems and have no access to co-funding for very important parks.