Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I am interested in unbundling this PPP model because that is what I have raised with Ms Tallon. I will try this again. One presumes it is accepted that private operators, which construct with State money but then maintain and operate these plants, turn a profit. Ms Tallon cannot provide the committee with figures on what that profit might be. Logically, where the profit is accruing to a private entity, that is revenue forgone to the public authority. I do not make a value judgment on this day as to what way that is. However, as a matter of fact, that would be the case.

It occurs to me, therefore, that if Ms Tallon were to be thorough in her value for money appraisal, she would build in and account for that profit margin and return. It might be that she would find - notwithstanding that there is a return to the private operator - it was still more efficient because of operational requirements within the public system, if one were to publicly operate and manage the plants. That could happen, as she said, on a site by site basis. However, I am hearing from her that that piece of the value for money puzzle has not actually been factored in.