Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I have attended many greyhound meetings and Bord na gCon does a great job linking a good night out with the sport of greyhound racing. I have read a great deal about hare coursing and I have spoken to many people involved in it. We have made huge strides over the past decade to deal with welfare issues. There will be exceptions, as there will be in any sport that involves animals competing against each other and being aggressive. Our job is to manage that by putting codes of conduct in place regarding how the meets are run in order that everything reasonable is done to reduce pain, suffering and unnecessary welfare problems. It is also our job to put inspections in place to back that up and that is what we are doing.

Deputy Colreavy referred to fur farm inspections and the eight inspections of coursing meetings next year by our authorised officers. That does not require significant resources. The number of fur farms in Ireland is in single figures and doubling the number of inspections will not be a big deal in terms of resources but it will send a strong message to those engaged in this activity that they need to abide by the standards we insist upon. I will think about whether we should include someone who has a background in animal welfare independent of the Department on the inspection team but I would not like to undermine my own officials. They have a balanced view on what it acceptable or not. We have good authorised officers, inspectors and veterinary staff who are capable of determining what is acceptable. They do not necessarily have to have a so-called animal welfare specialist looking over their shoulders. I would argue that we have the best animal welfare specialists in the State in my Department and if did not, we should have. I will think about that; I will not rule it out.

With regard to the shooting of wild birds, my understanding is the Minister for the Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht is examining the Wildlife Acts against next year. I have sympathy for the argument that we need to ensure we have a list of protected birds that cannot be shot for sport.

We should be working with BirdWatch Ireland and many other NGOs which put a great deal of work into this area. We have a responsibility to protect species that are in trouble, and many bird species in Ireland are under severe pressure. Whether it is under the AEOS programme on conservation and biodiversity that we implement or whether it is under lists of protected species, my Department and the NPWS have a responsibility to work together on that, and we will.

If the Deputy has suggestions as to how we should deal with feral cats, I would very interested to hear them. In case Members think I am a bluffer, one of the few areas in which we increased expenditure last year in the budget - there are those in the audience here who might find this difficult to hear because we had to cut budgets in other areas - which is not large but which we increased significantly in percentage terms, was the amount of ex-gratiapayments to animal welfare organisations across the country, and we will do the same in the budget this year. Unfortunately, one of the casualties of recession is animals and pets that people cannot afford to keep any longer and place into the care of animal welfare organisations. Many such organisations are set up by well-meaning persons who put all of their resources into looking after animals. We have taken two actions. We have put a code of conduct in place for the welfare of animals in welfare organisations and we have stated that we will fund welfare organisations as long as they apply that code of conduct. We have linked the two. We have significantly increased the level of ex-gratiapayments to animal welfare organisations. We have also been quite supportive of local authorities in the case of abandoned horses because that has been a big problem of the recession to which we have a responsibility to respond. We are putting our money where our mouth is. I am not saying it is a vast sum but it represents a significant increase in percentage terms which is contrary to our expenditure programmes in almost every other area.

I have probably answered Deputy Colreavy's arguments on whether fur-farming and coursing are absolutely necessary. They are not. When something is not necessary for people to live and eat, it is a judgment call whether that means one should ban activities such as coursing and fur-farming, whether or not one likes them. It is my judgment that we should regulate rather than ban them.

I would share some of the concerns that have been expressed about animals in circuses. Under the present Act, we can do a great deal to ensure that animals that are part of a circus are being looked after in a way that requires significant responsibility on the part of their owners. Animals in circuses must be looked after in accordance with the welfare provisions of section 12 of this Bill. Circuses are also subject to regulation at an EU level.

Other countries have had a political debate on whether to ban circus animals. It is something into which I want to put a little more thought before we make a final decision. My sense is that probably we should be trying to deal with this through regulation as in other areas but I do not want to rule that out entirely. Let me think about it between now and Report Stage. If Deputy Pringle wishes to press the amendment in the meantime, that is a decision for him. I have some sympathy with the argument that animals should not be on tour for the purposes of entertainment but my sense is that, like in other areas, we should probably be dealing with this through animal welfare regulation rather than an outright ban.

On Deputy Ó Cuív's comments, he is correct that there are essentially two principled approaches here. One is that we opt for an outright ban and deal with its implications and the other is that we put in place standards that will evolve and improve over time. The latter is the approach that we are taking and I thank him for his support on that.

On codes of practice, in order that members are clear because I do not want to pretend that we are doing something that we are not, there is a clear provision in the Bill on codes. I can put in place codes of conduct for almost anything that deals with animals, including coursing, hunting and fur-farming. There is a difference between a voluntary code of conduct and a mandatory code of conduct. There is a difference even between a mandatory code of conduct and a regulation which is a legally enforceable instrument that changes the law, and there is a legal definition that differentiates between the two. My understanding is that a code of practice, even if it is mandatory, cannot be the basis for changing the law but that a regulation can be. That is why we may need to use a combination of both ministerial regulation and codes of practice to ensure that we can stand over the implementation and the practical reality of the effectiveness of codes of practice.

I have looked at the codes of practice that are currently in place, and enforced in the vast majority of cases, particularly around hunting and the use of terriers, etc., in Ireland. It is also worth noting that in the United Kingdom, even after they banned fox hunting, they did not ban the use of terrier work. The code of conduct on terrier work being applied in Ireland is the code of conduct that has been taken from the United Kingdom, where there has been a high level of political focus on animal welfare standards, etc. There is a pragmatic reason for the use of terrier work, in vermin control and in controlling fox numbers. What is not often spoken of is the impact of foxes, in particular, on sheep and poultry farmers where, for example, there can be dozens of lambs with their throats ripped out and a farmer looking for a professional to deal with an expensive fox population problem causing animal welfare concerns on a farm. We must allow for that and at the same time ensure that when there is terrier work used as part of fox hunting, for example, with the use of horses and dogs, there is a code of conduct that is used in reality. In the vast majority of cases, it is so used. I have spoken to many involved to get a sense of what is happening on the ground. The codes of conduct being implemented on a voluntary basis are fairly good. The question is whether we want to ensure that they will be legally enforceable in the future under this Bill. That is something I will have the capacity to do at a later stage by introducing regulations or codes of conduct. There is a subtle difference in that regard between mandatory codes of conduct and regulations or statutory instruments. I have probably answered most of the questions. If members want to come back on anything, I will happily try to answer.