John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister made a reference to Tuesday's meeting.

I am taking the opportunity to assure the Minister in this regard because I cannot let the matter go and would not like to say it when he has left the room. Putting the opening incident to one side, the general tone of the meeting thereafter was one of complete engagement by both sides. I am sure the Minister has heard individual Deputies voicing their own opinions as to what happened. My view is that the opening incident was caused by a misunderstanding of the reason the representatives of the Health Service Executive and the Department of Health were at the meeting in the first place. They seemed to be under a misapprehension that the purpose of the meeting was to discuss a draft report they had received which was sent to them out of courtesy. In fact, the purpose of the meeting was to examine the facts and figures given a previous meeting with Mr. Cathal Magee.

I was taken aback by the content of the delegates' opening statements which were almost legalistic in style and largely set out why they could not answer particular questions. It is not the case that we were getting into policy matters. As the Minister is aware, I read out a statement at every meeting declaring that we do not deal with policy issues. Moreover, I have often had to caution members when their questions are policy related. However, we do have an open exchange at the committee and have enjoyed a relationship with the HSE and the Department under previous CEOs and Secretaries General that has been very fruitful and productive. I do not know why the delegates came to Tuesday's meeting armed, as they were, with references to legislation and Standing Orders and declaring that they could not answer a specific set of questions. In fact, they went on, after the incident we are discussing, to do their business as we would expect them to do.

It might have been helpful if they had brought their concerns to me prior to the meeting. I met Dr. McLoughlin last Thursday and there was no indication that he had concerns about attending the meeting on Tuesday. Tensions were obvious before the meeting, however, in that it was difficult to fix a date for the delegates to come before the committee in the first place. Perhaps there are issues in that regard. As such, I take the opportunity to assure the Minister and the Minister of State that their officials can knock on my door at any time to explain their concerns or outline why they do or do not want to answer specific questions. On Tuesday, however, I would not accept the statements they placed in the public domain.