Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I remind everybody to ensure their telephones are switched off. Apologies have been received from the Chairman, Deputy Dominic Hannigan. The first and main item on our agenda is an exchange of views with the Canada-Europe Parliamentary Association. On behalf of the committee, I welcome the delegates to Ireland and the Oireachtas, and I hope their visit is good and informative.

The individual members are Ms Joyce Bateman, MP, Ms Annick Papillon, MP, Senator David Tkachuk and Senator Joan Fraser. The delegation is led by Mr. David Tilson, MP. I understand this is an opportunity for the delegation to visit Ireland and see the work being done here in the run-up to the EU Presidency. It will allow the members to gain an understanding of what is currently happening in Ireland. This afternoon the delegation will also go before the Oireachtas committees dealing with foreign affairs and environmental matters. We want a good exchange of views but the delegation must leave this meeting early in order to make its next meeting. We will try to be efficient and make best use of the delegation's time.

The delegation is interested in discussing priorities for the upcoming Presidency, the Irish and European response to the sovereign debt crisis, Canadian and European Union relations and bilateral relations between Canada and Ireland.

To make the best use of everyone's time, I will invite Mr. Tilson to make some opening comments, following which members can express any views or put any questions they may have to the delegation, and likewise if members of the delegation have any points or questions they wish to put to the committee, I will facilitate that. On behalf of us all, the members of the delegation are very welcome to Ireland and to our committee meeting. I will hand over to Mr. Tilson to make some opening comments.

Mr. David Tilson, MP:

Thank you, Chairman. It is a pleasure to be here. We have had some interesting meetings thus far. The Chairman has pretty well summarised why we are here. We met some of the members' colleagues in Strasbourg. Our delegation is two members shy as they have returned to Canada. As the members may or may not know, Canada is an official observer at the Council of Europe and we have had an opportunity to attend it and have had the privilege of participating in some of the debates and listening to some of the issues raised. We are interested in how those issues affect Canada and Canadian policies, and many of our issues are similar. We have gone to Strasbourg for all four sessions of the Council of the Europe and have been fairly active in participating in the Council and in the committees.

Our delegation is called the Canada-Europe Parliamentary Association. It is an association made up of members of parliament and members of the Canadian Senate. We are an all-party group; we are not only from one party. All parties are represented here today and, naturally, as with groups here, we differ on some issues and agree on others. The committee may find some of those differences but we are certainly impressed with what we have seen in Ireland so far and look forward to hearing some of the initiatives Ireland may take when it takes over the EU Presidency on 1 January next year.

Our issues are several-fold. One is the economic problems facing Europe. Those problems exist everywhere. Canada has had those problems, although not as severely as Europe or Ireland. Unemployment is one of them. Many young Irish people are coming to Canada because there are no jobs here, and we are pleased they are doing that. In the case of many people in Canada, their ancestors date back to the Famine, as do mine, and, therefore, we all have a connection with Ireland.

We are interested in the economy and it is a case of how Europe goes, so will Canada go. We are interested in the economy in the United States. Our trade is pretty high with Europe and the Americans. We are interested in a trade agreement, called the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA, that is being negotiated, and we are hopeful the Irish, during their Presidency, will encourage its passing. We are at the stage now where it will be on the edge of going to the different member states for votes and we hope it will be passed. We believe the agreement will be good for Europe and for Canada.

We have several concerns. One of the reasons Canada's economy is not, I would say, so much booming but is doing better than other economies is our oil business. We are concerned about the fuel directive that surfaced last spring. It is being negotiated again and we hope that issue will be resolved. We believe our oil is as good as any country's that is being used in Europe. We attend the Arctic conferences. A number of Arctic conferences are held in different countries. I do not believe Ireland is part of that. We are interested in global warming and in the issues of the Arctic, which number many.

The members may have some questions for us and I expect we will have some questions for the members. I thank the Vice Chairman very much for allowing us to come to this committee.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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The delegation is very welcome. I will hand over to any members who may have any comments or questions to put to our colleagues.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I welcome our Canadian colleagues to Ireland and wish them a very successful tour. It is particularly important that they should come at this time from the point of view of Ireland's assumption of the Presidency of EU next January and that of the questions Mr. Tilson MP raised. Those points are important and we have raised them. It is interesting that issues that concern the delegation also concern us.

The first point we must remember is that Ireland's Presidency of the European Union is very important from the point of view of Ireland and that of Europe. We believe we have a calming influence in that we are prepared to carry and face up to our responsibilities of an economic nature, fully accept all that goes with that, and, as a result, we expect to be treated as equals within the European Union. The question of smaller countries playing a lesser role does not arise. We believe we have an equally important role to play and that we all have to cease thinking in a parochial sense. We have to think as Europeans. Each of us, as elected members of national parliaments, must begin to think as Europeans and to have regard for the welfare of all the people of Europe in all the regions without exception because that will represent an inclusiveness that has been sadly lacking in the performance of some European leaders during the past year or more.

We believe that, as a small country, we have a particular role to play in the sense that we realise what needs to be done. We know, for instance, that the major European powers have accepted and taken on responsibilities that are huge in terms of a financial input, but that does not mean we are not aware of the pain they are going through. Everyone has to suffer in the current economic climate.

Mr. Tilson mentioned the Canadian boom as compared with the performance of other economies. That reminds me of the agricultural sector in this country because some people say that sector is booming but in actual fact it is not. It is in comparison with the building sector because, following the boom, the building sector is non-existent, and the same applies to that sector in many of our neighbouring countries. The reason for that is the huge emphasis that was placed on property, property prices and the high level of lending that took place. In the United States, and this occurred to a lesser extent in Canada, there was sub-prime lending and the creation of unprecedented inflation in the house property sector. Not since the 1930s has anything happened that has been as bad. When the crash came, what effectively happened here is that the two thirds of all revenue that was generated by the building sector disappeared overnight and left a considerable chasm in its wake. The strategy that has been adopted in Ireland is to try to ensure the productive sectors which target export markets - the food, pharmaceutical and chemical sectors - continue to do their best to carry the responsibility for regenerating the economy, and that is what is happening at present. Above and beyond all other European countries, we have done more than our fair share in setting out what has to be done. We have made huge sacrifices and there has been huge hurt in terms of hits to our population. A great number of people who have had their standard of living slashed are suffering. We appreciate that and there is no easy way around it.

I last point I want to make is one Mr. Tilson also mentioned. When this economic crisis first affected the smaller countries in Europe, and of course it affected the smaller countries first, there was a tendency among some economic analysts and experts of worldwide renown to suspect it would only affect smaller countries, but they were wrong.

All economic convulsions of this nature are like ripples in a pool. They spread their effect to a wider and greater extent as time goes on. We hope the calm and solid action that has been taken in Ireland will have that calming effect throughout the European Union and that it will be appreciated by our colleagues.

Joe O'Reilly (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I warmly welcome the delegation. It is a great pleasure to see them here. I had the privilege of meeting representatives of the Canada-Europe Parliamentary Association in a Council of Europe context and it is a double pleasure to meet them again. I hope they have a happy stay in Ireland and leave with good memories of the country. I know the delegates have strong links with Ireland, through kinship and otherwise.

The constituency of Cavan-Monaghan, which is represented by Senator Kathryn Reilly and myself, has extraordinarily strong links with Canada. The area of Bailieborough, where I live, and the town and county of Monaghan saw huge emigration to Canada. I believe there is a little village called Bailieborough and an area called Monaghan in Canada. Friendship links have been established between Monaghan County Council and Canada, with great effect. The Canadian ambassador to Ireland has visited my area of Canningstown in Bailieborough a few times. I believe a Prime Minister of Canada had direct family links with the area. The kinship ties between the constituency I represent and Canada are enormous. My remarks do not do justice to the strength of those ties. There is considerable documentary evidence of emigration, family links and villages and towns established in Canada by people from the Cavan-Monaghan area. The same family names and place names crop up frequently. There has been considerable exchange between our two countries. For that reason, it is a particular pleasure for me, as a representative of Cavan-Monaghan, to welcome the delegation here and to applaud their presence.

When we have The Gathering in Ireland next year and we bring the Irish diaspora and people with connections to Ireland back to the country, we would be delighted to see a considerable Canadian contingent among their number as part of that great celebration. As well as a kinship in blood, we have a kinship in ideas and commitment to democratic principles, the rule of law and human rights, and we have many shared values about the rights of people and the significance of every individual. Our kinship in those areas is just as significant as our blood kinship.

I acknowledge the family connection of Mr. David Tilson, MP, with my constituency. He has a direct connection which I have discussed with him previously. I can identify for him the Tilson families in Cavan to whom he is related.

Mr. David Tilson, MP:

I am going to be proud.

Joe O'Reilly (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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He will be very proud of them. I would be happy to arrange a visit for him and to have him come with me to visit them. I would be happy to facilitate that, if he has time.

I stress to the delegates from Canada, which is a member of the G8, that we have a huge interest in job creation, in turning economic progress into jobs and in using job creation to create further economic progress. Of course, this is a universal concern. We consider this a vital stimulus to the Irish and European economies. We are very concerned about youth unemployment and a lost generation of young people. I ask Canadians to use their good offices within the G8 to suggest that we need job creation, a jobs stimulus, activation policies to get jobs going and a credit flow to facilitate that. I note that Canada has strong representation in the International Monetary Fund, IMF. Job creation and stimulus must be a sub-text of the IMF. Job creation and giving people the dignity of work is a huge issue for humanity at present. We must look at imaginative ways of doing that and of sharing our ideas with individuals.

I am impressed by what the association has been doing in the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe, OSCE, with regard to child soldiers, women's rights and atrocities of war. I commend that. Those are interests shared by Irish people. I hope the delegates will continue to pursue that agenda, with their considerable influence.

I know Canada has taken a robust stand on Syria. As the Tánaiste recently said to the United Nations, what is happening in Syria is an affront to humanity. It is an appalling story. I believe the delegates were present when I spoke about this matter at the Council of Europe. I am curious to know what Canada is doing about Syria and I would like to hear the delegates' comments on that. We need to restore peace in Syria through an arms embargo and, having restored peace, to ensure that democratic values and mutual respect are established. We, in Ireland, would like to see all groupings in Syria co-exist happily. Given our history and traditions, we also have a specific interest in the Christian minorities that might be in danger in a post-settlement situation. We would be interested in Canadian support in that regard.

I welcome the delegation. There is huge kinship between Canada and Ireland and we should be working to build on that. We have kinship in blood and in our shared values. Both give us reason to work together. We also have a mutual interest in working together, from an economic perspective.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the delegates to the committee. Canada had a major involvement in the Irish peace process, when a number of Canadians played a significant and important role. General John de Chastelain dealt with the issue of putting weapons beyond use. Mr. Al Hutchinson dealt with policing and served as Police Ombudsman in the North. Mr. Justice William Hoyt was involved in the Saville inquiry which dealt with difficult issues from the past and tried to come to terms with those difficulties. The International Fund for Ireland makes a positive contribution to present day issues and supports clubs, groups and individuals to bring about a more positive environment. The peace process was, partly, about people moving on. It was also about people seeing change in their own lives.

Canadians have opened their country to young people from Ireland, particularly in the difficult circumstances we are experiencing at present. I listened to the Canadian ambassador at a jobs fair at the weekend. He spoke about the welcome Canada offers to people from Ireland. What skills does Canada seek in young Irish people who are emigrating? Many young Irish people are going as far away as Australia. The ambassador made the point that Canada is a six or seven hour flight from Ireland and that it is much easier to keep in contact with family, or to get home in case of a family emergency, from Canada than from Australia.

The issue is the jobs. Where are the jobs available? One of the previous speakers referred to the construction industry. That industry has collapsed in Ireland. My young brother, who has a young family, has been out of work for the past three years. Is the work in Canada family-friendly? I spoke to a young man who worked in carpentry and he is talking about going there to work in the mines. Many of the Irish might find it difficult to cope with the long winters.

I listened to Mr. Tilson speaking about his past. I also heard on the radio earlier that Neil Armstrong, the first man to step onto the moon, had Irish connections. Apparently, there was cattle rustling in his background. I hope there is nothing like that in Mr. Tilson's background.

Joe O'Reilly (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I would say the Tilsons were much more honest than that.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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They were probably robbing the cattle from the Tilsons. The important issue is the type of work that is available. Is there a welcome there for the Irish? In some countries there was criticism that the number of our young people going there was dragging down the skills set because people were working for lower rates. Is there any tension in that regard in Canada? Where are the emigrants going and is work and accommodation available in those areas? Have there been difficulties with any of the young people who have gone there among the recent group of emigrants from Ireland?

I again thank Canada for the help and support it gave to the Irish peace process. Its role in that process is really appreciated by the Irish people.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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Like my colleagues, I welcome you here again and thank you for your interest. I will add some concluding comments.

You raised some points about the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA, between Canada and Europe and asked about what the themes of our Presidency would be. Ireland's economy is deeply integrated with the economy of the outside world. The main thing keeping our economy stabilised at present, with the possibility of growth in the future, is our ability to export goods and services. Any type of agreement that facilitates the greater flow of goods and services across the world is something Ireland would very much support. We believe that within that environment we are producing goods and services that people will want to buy. As a result, the Irish view of the agreement would be that we would want the most ambitious settlement possible to facilitate the people you represent selling their goods and services elsewhere. We want the same for our people.

With regard to the forthcoming EU Presidency, two main themes will probably dominate the work we do. The first will be reaction. Europe has been grappling for the last three years with the sovereign debt crisis and I believe issues such as the creation of a banking union will arise within the term of our leadership of the European Union. How we react to that and how we deal with work that is ongoing at present will take up a huge share of the energy and attention we have for the Presidency, as will the response of the European Union to the terrible trauma taking place in Greece and the continuing uncertainty regarding the ability of some countries to fund themselves into the future. I believe that will be a major part of our work in the Presidency.

The second part will be our priorities and the normal priorities of the European Union. Our priority is very much focused on jobs and we consider the acceleration of measures relating to the Single Market as very important for that, particularly in respect of the digital sector. Second, as you may have noticed from the demonstration outside the House, the negotiations on the Common Agricultural Policy will probably be concluding during our Presidency, while we will do our best to steer the negotiations on the multi-annual financial framework for the European Union to a close if they are not already concluded by the time we take over.

That is a whistle stop tour of some of the issues on which I believe we are likely to be focused. I have a question for the witnesses. The Canadian Minister of Finance, Mr. Jim Flaherty, has been very critical of the European Union's response to the debt and economic growth crisis in Europe. What are your individual perspectives on how you anticipate Europe responding to the difficulty we have? I should acknowledge that Canada is the leader of the International Monetary Fund, IMF, delegation, of which Ireland is a part. I understand our Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, and the Canadian Minister of Finance have a very good working relationship. In fact, Mr. Flaherty visited Ireland a number of weeks ago to receive an honour at one of our universities and also to talk about Canada's view on what it wishes to see happen with regard to the debt crisis and about its strong support for Ireland, which I acknowledge.

Again, thank you for attending and I hope the rest of your visit goes well. If any of you wish to respond to the points I and my colleagues have made, we would be delighted to hear it.

Mr. David Tilson, MP:

I will start. I will try not to talk for long because my colleagues might wish to speak.

A number of issues were raised. I always maintain that jobs is the main issue, regardless of whether it is Canada, Ireland, Europe or the United States. Unemployment is high here, but it is high everywhere. Deputy Crowe asked about jobs and whether Canada is family friendly. Unquestionably, there are many people of Irish descent in Canada. My colleague, Ms Papillon, who is a francophone, will confirm that there is a large Irish contingent in the francophone community. They have spread throughout the world. You mentioned our Minister of Finance, Mr. Flaherty. He is quite proud of his Irish connections, as is the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration who was here this weekend to attend the same jobs fair that was mentioned. He is proud of his connections and always wears a green tie, or at least he does quite often.

We have jobs and most of the jobs being promoted at the jobs fair are in western Canada. The reason is that the oil business there has expanded and houses are being built, but we do not have enough people to build them. That is why we are recruiting the people who are unemployed in Ireland to help build those houses and other structures. We need those people to help us with that problem in the west.

The Deputy mentioned our banks. I will not delve into what Mr. Flaherty said. He might have been too critical, but I do not know. There is no question that our banks are more regulated than banks here. We have not had the same problems. The banks offered people all kinds of money to buy a home and the bubble burst. That is the problem. We did not have that, touch wood. It could happen but Mr. Flaherty is doing things such as increasing the amount of the downpayments one must make and ensuring mortgages can no longer be as high.

With respect to The Gathering, I have seen the signs promoting it. It is a wonderful promotional idea to encourage people from all over the world to return to Ireland. I wish the country well with it. I am sure if we reach the stage of signing the CETA agreement in Ireland, there will be all kinds of Canadians travelling over to witness that.

The Syria issue is serious.

We will discuss it when we meet the Chairman and members of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade. I thank members for their comments. We have looked at the situation in Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Ireland but our observations are that Ireland seems to have done better than the other countries for a number of reasons. My congratulations go out to you for doing that. I acknowledge that Ireland is not there yet, but the situation is much better than in some of the other countries.

I will conclude but my colleagues are putting up their hands.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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Ms Fraser, I welcome you to the committee.

Senator Jane Fraser:

I thank the Chairman and member for receiving us. I will comment on one or two of the points that were raised. The Vice Chairman referred to the impatience of the Canadian Minister of Finance, Mr. Flaherty, MP. I think in truth the whole world has been tense, not to say impatient, about Europe's trouble in responding as quickly as the rest of the world thinks it should have.

Canada is a federation and we have some understanding of how difficult it is to get many partners together around the table. We have ten very strong provinces and three territories in addition to a federal government. We are familiar with the complexities of these negotiations. I do not think it was just Mr. Flaherty, who can be blunt and tends to say out loud what many others are more diplomatic about. We, in contrast to Europe, have been extremely impressed by what Ireland has achieved. Ireland faced a terrible crisis and has responded to it with necessary but terrible austerity measures, yet has maintained social peace. The country is getting there. I cannot imagine how difficult it must have been for many thousands of people, but it is an amazing and in some ways a humbling thing to see what this country has managed to do in facing up to a terrible crisis. I would not want members to think we are sitting here being nasty, rude and critical about Ireland. That is very far from the case.

Deputy Crowe mentioned the peace process, which is another movement the whole world has watched. As Deputy O'Reilly will recall, one of the first things I do is ask Irish people what should I do when I am in Ireland, and the other day in response somebody said I should take the train to Belfast and see the Titanic museum. Is that not wonderful? The past is gone, I am sure it will never be entirely gone but to see what has been achieved is very moving.

I will now respond to questions on whether Canada is family-friendly. As Mr. Tilson said, many jobs are in the construction industry, they tend to be in the oil sands. People from the poorer regions of Canada are flocking there too. There is work in developing the oil sands themselves and the construction of the communities that are needed to support that. I believe Canada is a family-friendly country. Fundamentally, Canada is a friendly country that has been built on immigration over the centuries. We welcome and integrate people from areas as diverse as Hong Kong and Somalia. For Canadians, the Irish are just like their cousins and they are made welcome by the Canadians who are delighted to see them. We believe that the Irish people who stay in Canada will be wonderful Canadians and we are lucky to have them.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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Does Ms Papillon wish to comment?

Ms Annick Papillon, MP:

I will say a few words. I thank the Vice Chairman and members for receiving us. It is a pleasure to be here. As my colleagues said we have shared values and shared historical roots. I am from Quebec city, which has a long association with Ireland. I am aware that Quebec has sent missions to Europe to help deal with youth unemployment by offering them jobs in Quebec. We have sent missions to France and Belgium. The Irish are coming to Quebec, perhaps because they know we have a shared history and many there have Irish blood in them. I represent the Opposition, and the leader of the New Democratic Party, NDP, has Irish roots.

We are interested in discussing many topics, including jobs and economic growth. I look forward to further conversations.

Ms Joyce Bateman, MP:

I thank the Vice Chairman and members for welcoming us. It is good to see Deputies Bernard J. Durkan and Joe O'Reilly again. We are meeting Deputies Seán Crowe and Paschal Donohoe for the first time. We are delighted to be here and to learn from the Irish experience and to share with you. I am a Member of Parliament on the Government benches and our framework is clearly a focus on job creation, economic growth and most important of all for those of us with children - I am a mother of a 21 year old and a 14 year old - long-term prosperity. Long-term prosperity is not just prosperity for our generation but prosperity for the generations to come. That is the reason we are trying very hard to get back to balance by 2014, that is the reason for our policies. We recognise that we are in a very fortunate position and that the austerity measures we are taking are very moderate relative to the ones that the Irish people are taking. We are taking these measures and not resting on our laurels. We do not want to have a situation where our young people are faced with challenges or for that matter, after the Taoiseach's visit on the weekend, Irish young people do not have opportunities. To that end, our Minister of Finance, Mr. Jim Flaherty, MP, has taken measures that were seen by some as draconian to reduce terms of mortgages by increasing mortgage down-payment requirements. Again, that is not about the comfort zone today but the comfort zone over the next 30 years.

I echo the comments of all of my colleagues on welcoming people to Canada. We are a very welcoming country. I come from western Canada, where there are many jobs but not just in the oil fields. It is very critical that we send out the message that there are jobs in peripheral services. We are building communities and we do not have enough people in western Canada to fill all the jobs we have on offer. While the oil sands jobs is a very important driver, there are other opportunities.
We cannot be more friendly than creating a safe future for children and young adults to enter into economic prosperity.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank the delegates for visiting this committee. I hope they have an enjoyable afternoon and that the rest of their trip goes well. I wish them a safe journey.