Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the witnesses for their presentation. I welcome the work being done by the working group at present and look forward to its results being issued. It is long overdue because the group was due to get back to us last year but, hopefully, that will happen in November. There has to be a way forward with regard to the self-employed because there is no incentive to be self-employed in this country at present. A safety net must be put in place for self-employed people.

Speaking from experience, I agree with what Deputy O'Dea said about the frustration among the public regarding the entitlements of self-employed people. They go to the social welfare office and are told they are entitled to nothing. They then come to our constituency offices and we work with them. One is at the mercy of the community welfare officer in certain cases. In fairness to them, however, they work with and help many self-employed people. If one is self-employed, one pays an S stamp or, if one is paying PRSI, an A stamp. When I was self-employed I had an accountant to pay my returns to the Revenue Commissioners. They told me what stamp I should pay and when I paid it, I received a receipt. However, the receipt did not tell one what entitlements one had. That is one of the issues the Department of Social Protection should deal with. People need information, particularly the self-employed. Self-employed people will read the fine details even though they are basically very busy people working seven days a week. They need this information.

Many self-employed people are calling to my constituency office at present. Their business and turnover are down by 60% or 70% and they are living on their savings. They are also keeping their businesses going with their savings, but the savings are drying up. Self-employed people are in a terrible mess. They were never really represented, and I am not blaming any Government for that. They are a small minority of people who kept this country going, but they were never represented when it came to their entitlements. More information should be given to self-employed people about their entitlements.

The witnesses say that if a self-employed person can produce their facts and figures to the community welfare officer, he or she is entitled to some type of social welfare payment. The problem is that a self-employed person's business could have been going badly for a year or two years and if they wish to get all their figures, he or she must get them from their accountant. In certain cases, they do not have the money to pay their accountant to give them the figures so one is left in no-man's land. The person might have a young family to feed or a mortgage to be paid but there is no money available. The social welfare officer cannot give one anything because he or she must have the facts and figures. We must see what the working group has to offer for self-employed people. We need something positive from the working group and the Department of Social Protection for the future because there is a definite need for a safety net for self-employed people.