Mr. Tony Donohoe:

I want to pick up on the Senator's comments on skills shortages and Springboard. We regard Springboard as an exemplar. The Senator is involved in the selection of programmes and is aware of the lengths to which the organisers have gone to ensure those programmes are aligned with the labour markets. That is the starting point in this regard, and it has worked well. The concept of a multi-provider model is also very effective.

The Senator mentioned high-tech shortages. We could have an entire session on skills shortages in the high-tech sector. The reasons for that go back to the school system.

It relates to proficiency in mathematics and so on. Some of the current shortages or the lack of a pipeline of science and technology graduates can be traced back to the bursting of the dotcom bubble. In fairness to the system, it has responded or is responding. Several ICT conversion programmes are being run in consultation with IBEC's ICT Ireland sector and the Higher Education Authority. These have been shaped with industry advice so there is something taking place in this area. Similarly, despite the inevitable detraction of JobBridge, we regard it as an effective programme. The point is that these are exceptions rather than the rule. We do not have the systematic structures in place. We would expect these to go on as a matter of course; we should not have to highlight them. We should have structures whereby employers and the education, training and labour activation authorities come together.

I wish to develop some points raised by Mr. O'Brien. There have been two important developments, one of which relates to the education and training boards. This committee saw the heads of the Bill for these structures and it is coming soon, as is the SOLAS legislation. We regard these tranches of legislation as critical. The heads of the Bill did not give us any cause for comfort. It looked like the same old same old. We did not see provision for involvement for employers and we did not see provision for involvement for higher education. This is surprising because connectedness is an important principle to tie the system together. We did not see any connections with what is currently called the national employment and entitlements service.

As Mr. O'Brien pointed out, we have no issue with the rhetoric relating to Pathways to Work but it has not been translated into reality. We know it is a significant programme. One senior official described it to me as changing the wiring while the lights are still on. It is a big change management programme because the system has been overwhelmed by demand and it is remarkably difficult to try to change its structures.

We are four years into this crisis. We knew we had poor labour market activation structures when we came into the crisis. The experience on the job of anyone who goes into a social welfare office, apart from a few pilot offices, is that there is no difference. The glue that will hold the education, training and labour market activation structures together relates to good guidance and good counselling for people who present in these offices. One figure always sticks with me in respect of this issue. Labour market activation will not guarantee full employment or anything like it. However, it is important because it minimises the number of people descending into long-term unemployment. I recall that during the mid-1990s when the Celtic tiger was roaring and we had 6% growth, we still had 9% long-term unemployment. We do not have that yet, although we will. This is why it is important to get labour market activation, education and training right. Long-term unemployment feeds into intergenerational unemployment, health issues, crime and so on.

Mr. O'Brien referred to apprenticeships and youth unemployment. There is an opportunity for Ireland as we approach the EU Presidency. There is a good deal of discussion of the German dual system. I do not imagine we could immediately transplant a system that has been developed over decades or centuries. It is very much a construction from the German context but there is important learning in this area, especially in terms of the new model of traineeships in the Irish economy. At a European level there is a receptiveness to this idea. We have already seen technical assistance agreements between Germany and Spain to develop some elements of the dual system and we could consider something like that in an Irish context with a view to linking up the world of education, training and work.