Mr. Anthony Foley:

Mr. Tobin has provided the main statistics. The measurement is litres of pure alcohol per adult, as opposed to per capita. Funnily enough, that puts us at about the same level as the French, and we see those as sensible, moderate and organised drinkers. The number is in the top third of European Union members, and by international standards it is relatively high, although not nearly as high - relatively speaking - as it was a decade ago.

The Senator is absolutely right in that internationally there is concern about the abuse of alcohol. Deputy Tóibín referred to one of our problems in Ireland, namely, that enforcement is pathetic. Listening to Joe Duffy's radio show over the past few days we would have heard about drunk students on Grafton Street, and as far as I could see, not one of them was arrested. They were lying around the place and urinating on the streets. There are many laws but we just do not implement them. We establish as many laws as we like but if we do not implement them, it will not do much good.

A venture capitalist with a bunch of money would probably prefer to put it into information technology rather than alcohol, given the societal and political pressures. I do not speak for the industry but I do not believe anybody would say that an industry can survive where its product is being abused and creating more negatives than positives. The long-term interest of the industry is clearly better served by a sympathetic public policy environment, and that will only come about when there is moderate and organised consumption of alcohol.

One of our big problems in Ireland is the way we consume alcohol and abuse through binge drinking. It is not a nicely moderate drink with a meal but rather people going out to get drunk. We must fundamentally change that culture. That is difficult to achieve. Although we have spoken about prices and taxes, we should remember where the temperance movement began, with Fr. Mathew when we were poverty-stricken. Why is there a limit on the number of licences? In the 1900s there were so many pubs and shebeens proliferating the authorities felt the need to put a stop to the process. That did not come about because of wealth or income. There is a deeply imbued cultural element in the Irish with regard to alcohol, and it will require a much more sophisticated and thoughtful approach to deal with the issue than most of the policy suggestions we have heard.

The sponsorship of products by alcohol companies has been mentioned. Does anybody really think a group of drunken 18-year-old students going to a local convent are influenced by a competition being called the Heineken Cup as opposed to a rugby cup? If they are from my part of the city - the north side - they do not even know what rugby is.

We have a major problem with the abuse of alcohol in particular ways and we need to be much more energetic and sophisticated in how we deal with it. One criticism I would have of this Government and of previous ones is that at times they would criticise MEAS and so on but the amount of resources put in by Government for health promotion, alcohol education and proper leadership in terms of sending leading sportsmen into schools to persuade people against alcohol has been negligible. I agree we have a major problem. It does not help the industry in terms of growth and development but it is something we will have to deal with.