Mr. David Kelly:

The situation that has arisen over the last couple of years since then probably was not as obvious to us at the time. In terms of public procurement, there is obviously an onus on local authorities to get the best value for the State from public money. There is frequently a procurement process where local authorities will seek bids from different organisations, public or private, to provide a service. It has come to light - I have to say I do not think it was as apparent at the time - that significant levels of fundraised moneys were being used on top of State funding. The second thing - the trust could probably comment on this - is that there was probably a deficiency in the budgeting. I think there was not full clarity in the trust in relation to the actual cost of some of the services that were being provided. That is one of the issues that came forward in the regulator's reports. The culture of budgeting and financial management just was not there. There were a number of issues here. Since those issues were identified - the first time the financial issues were brought to the Department's attention was in July 2023 - the Department has been very hands-on. We have met with the trust very regularly and we have established an oversight group. I would say we have had very extensive and positive engagement with the trust in that time.