Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

I have focused specifically on the €1 billion we are spending each year. We probably spent similar amounts in 2022 and 2023 when we were ramping up, but the sense I get - we were talking about what happened with Tusla - is that no one is happy with how things have gone in the past few years. I get the sense the Department was at sea in 2022, 2023 and 2024. The proper controls and processes were not in place. We are trying to rectify that now, but a significant amount of money was paid in those times to a lot of individuals who have made themselves rich off the back of the State. That is ultimately the case here. We are not sure what web of companies is behind some of them. Some of them we tried to figure out. We cannot be sure whether there is even a small number of people with criminal links. That was stated by Ms McPhillips in response to a question. We cannot be sure. That is a serious situation for the State to be in. There was probably no other time when the State was or needed to be in that situation. I asked whether we tried to push back at any point on where people might be coming from. We did not.