Dr. Jim Murray:

From my dealings in this area over the years, it seems that the core thing is how a sector organises itself. It is difficult for SMEs because their bandwidth to engage with this kind of technical stuff, particularly on the education and training side, presents problems. We need to come up with more creative ways to support that kind of engagement. It is a very finely balanced thing because, on the one hand, you want apprenticeships to be employer-led. However, there is always a temptation to lead it from the centre. Unless we build capacity from the bottom up, the dream and ambition of having employer-led apprenticeships across the board in all different sectors will remain a challenge.

We need more creative thinking in how we do it. In my experience, it has worked best where there is a very strong professional or sectoral body. An example that comes to mind, having been involved in the post-2016 apprenticeships, is insurance. The Insurance Institute has the confidence of the member companies. If that model could be replicated, it would not be identical to the Insurance Institute, but some kind of co-ordination function is needed. Otherwise, a group of employers might come and meet the ETB, TU or both, as well as various parts of officialdom, and be a little overawed. I would not blame them. Some things they are presented with on levels of the framework and learning outcomes would come from us. We need to find a way to mediate that both ways so the employer need can be articulated clearly and there is professional assistance in development of occupational profiles and then building those relationships on the ground with local ETBs or TUs. This goes on and is successful in certain areas but making it universal is the big challenge on which we have to redouble our efforts. Key players in driving those are the national apprenticeship alliance and the national apprenticeship office. We need to look at how engagement can come from employers to support them on that front.