Mr. Brian Nolan:

I could not agree with the Senator's statement about mammies. They are precious. I firmly believe that the view of apprenticeships is changing. We are always going to have pockets of people with that opinion. Ignorance is not an excuse, but sometimes people look at it a certain way. The move to consortium and the expansion of the apprenticeship base are positives for apprentices. Up to now, apprentices were viewed as people in high-visibility vests and hard hats who get stuck in and get dirty. We would refer to that as an honest day's work, by the way. The reality is that apprenticeships are getting broader and people see them for what they are.

We have thousands of electricians. The bulk of apprentices are electricians. There are 11,000 apprentice electricians of the 25,000 overall, so there is an imbalance there. They now have an opportunity when they qualify to go on to an electrical engineering degree on the basis that they have done the apprenticeship. That is where the merger of craft and consortium is perfect. If you were to sell how this works, that is the marriage to highlight. It works a treat. There is great potential. The individual who needs to hit the ground running and earn money, for whatever reason, can take on an apprenticeship and still get to where he or she wants to be as an engineer without going through a college. That is not selling out the college route but is providing an alternative that may suit different individuals for particular reasons. That is a great advertisement for third level education and apprenticeships. If we could harness that further, it would be better.

The Senator is right that there is a bit of a stigma and I do not understand why. It has passed in the main, perhaps due to the likes of the expos. Funnily enough, I went to look at the Worldskills Ireland competition. At the same time, the Higher Options event was on. The two events were on in two different parts of the RDS. It was obvious that there was a whole pathway of people going to one but not the other. The obvious thing would be to have them promoted hand in hand and to show the options. I hope, over time, we will overcome that. We hear anecdotes about the end result for craft workers or people who have done apprenticeships. They go on to various different professions. That is great. We have actors and politicians. Many people were originally craft apprentices. We are proud of them.