Mr. Ben Friel:

I think that comes from second level education in terms of how we value careers in respect of the education we give students at that early age. It is going to take some work because we have to break the traditional cycle of a successful person being someone who goes to college, does a full-time degree and goes and gets a job. That is the life being drawn out for people. It is important that we are stepping in at second level and educating students that doing an apprenticeship is an option at third level, whether it is immediately after the leaving certificate or in some of the consortium models. The big challenge is how we can educate people about how doing an apprenticeship is not just a fall-back option but an alternative path. Part of this comes down to the pay conversation we were having earlier. When I did my apprenticeship in the North I heard the phrase "earn as you learn". I was thought that was great. It was perfect because I could not afford to go to college in the North. Being in the North also means I have no college debt and I have a full undergraduate degree. There were lots of incentives there to pick that path. It is also huge for social mobility. If it was not for this possibility, I would never have gone on in education. It is really important, therefore, that we look at apprenticeships as a holistic picture and not just in the context of careers or pay or something else. It has to be all of it altogether.