Mr. Brian Nolan:

Not to sound facetious but the most important part of it when we speak about industry is that without employers and workers there would be no need for apprenticeships. Every other component that is added to apprenticeship, be it ETBs, third level institutions or the educators, can make it better. They are so important in making it world class but we should never lose focus of it being industry led, and the stakeholder investment in this is so important. There is possibly a criticism on our part in respect of the newer groups. It is a case of having people sit in rooms rather than the actual stakeholders having the conversations. We need to get back to that.

There is nothing to say that consortium led is wrong or bad and I do not want to pit one against the other. In the established system there is quality assurance around craft apprenticeship. We can always do better, and we are open to seeing the apprenticeship model involve. With regard to payment, all apprentices in craft apprenticeships are paid in the workplace and for off-the-job phases.

The make-up of that is between the State and the employer. The consortium-led model is all employers. We could have a different argument about that and I am sure employers in that sector would. I think that might be off-putting for employers and maybe this is why the numbers are lower. I do not think there is a huge dropout rate in the consortium-led apprenticeships.