Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)

I move amendment No. 26

In page 20, after line 17, to insert the following: “Attendance at, and participation in, questioning of detained person by relevant officers during interview by member of An Garda Síochána

20. The Principal Act is amended by the insertion of the following section after section 250B:

“250C. (1)Where a member of An Garda Síochána arrests, whether in a Garda Síochána station or elsewhere, a person whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects of committing or of having committed an offence under section 262A and the person has been taken to and detained in a Garda Síochána station, or if the person is arrested in a Garda Síochána station, has been detained pursuant to section 4 of the Act of 1984, a relevant officer or officers (but not more than 2 such officers) may, if and for so long as the officer or officers is, or are, accompanied by a member of An Garda Síochána, attend at, and participate in, the questioning of a person so detained in connection with the investigation of the offence, but only if the member of An Garda Síochána requests the relevant officer or officers to do so and the member is satisfied that the attendance at, and participation in, such questioning of the relevant officer or officers is necessary for the proper investigation of the offence concerned.

(2) A relevant officer who attends at, and participates in, the questioning of a person in accordance with subsection (1) may not commit any act or make any omission which, if committed or made by a member of An Garda Síochána, would be a contravention of any regulation made under section 7 of the Act of 1984.

(3) An act committed, or omission made, by a relevant officer who attends at, and participates in, the questioning of a person in accordance with subsection (1) which, if committed or made by a member of An Garda Síochána, would be a contravention of any regulation made under section 7 of the Act of 1984 shall not of itself render the relevant officer liable to any criminal or civil proceedings or of itself affect the lawfulness of the custody of the detained person or the admissibility in evidence of any statement made by him or her.

(4) Where a person is before a court charged with an offence under section 262A, a copy of any recording of the questioning of the person by a member of An Garda Síochána or relevant officer while he or she was detained in a Garda Síochána station, or such questioning elsewhere, in connection with the investigation of the offence shall be given to the person or his or her legal representative only if the court so directs and subject to such conditions (if any) as the court may specify.

(5) A recording referred to in subsection (4) of the questioning of a person shall not be given to the person by An Garda Síochána except in accordance with a direction or order of a court made under that subsection or otherwise.

(6) A court may admit in evidence at the trial of a person in respect of an offence under section 262A—

(a) a recording by electronic or similar means, or

(b) a transcript of such a recording, or both, of the questioning of the person by a member of An Garda Síochána or relevant officer at a Garda Síochána station or elsewhere in connection with the investigation of the offence.

(7) Any statement made by the person concerned that is recorded in a recording which is admitted in evidence under subsection (6) may be admissible in evidence at the trial concerned notwithstanding the fact that—

(a) it was not taken down in writing at the time it was made, or

(b) that statement is not in writing and signed by the person who made it, or both.

(8) Subsections (6) and (7) shall not affect the admissibility in evidence at the trial of a person in respect of an offence of any statement that is recorded in writing made by the person during questioning by a member of An Garda Síochána or relevant officer at a Garda Síochána station or elsewhere in connection with the investigation of the offence (whether or not that statement is signed by the person) and irrespective of whether the making of that statement is recorded by electronic or similar means.

(9) In this section—

‘Act of 1984’ means the Criminal Justice Act 1984;

‘recording’ means a recording on tape of—

(a) an oral communication, statement or utterance, or

(b) a series of visual images which, when reproduced on tape, appear as a moving picture,

or both;

‘relevant officer’ means—

(a) a social welfare inspector, or

(b) an authorised officer within the meaning of section 250A;

‘tape’ includes—

(a) a disc, magnetic tape, soundtrack or other device in which sounds or signals may be embodied for the purpose of being reproduced (with or without the aid of some other instrument) in audible form,

and

(b) a film, disc, magnetic tape or other device in which visual images may be embodied for the purpose of being reproduced (with or without the aid of some other instrument) in visual form.”.”.

This amendment comes on foot of the Hamilton review on economic crime and corruption. The committee will share with me a desire to ensure that the proper social protection claims go to the right people at the right time. I want to emphasise that the vast majority of those claiming payments from my Department are claiming that to which they are legitimately entitled.

In order to protect the integrity of the system and to target resources at those most in need, we must continue to take all steps to combat social welfare fraud. Social welfare fraud can be complex. Not all gardaí are experts in the conditionalities of the various social protection schemes. This provision will allow gardaí to invite subject matter experts from my Department to assist in interviews of detained suspects in the case of serious social welfare fraud. Similar powers exist for Revenue officers and those who investigate serious anti-competitive practices in the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission.