Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

To use the Deputy’s example of hospitals, somebody would not be taken into hospital because he or she will get sick in the future. He or she would be treated on the basis that he or she is sick now, even if it was known that he or she would get sick again.

Prisons are there for two reasons. They are there for punishment and for rehabilitation. There are two functions. When we take into account penal policy, of course we have to take into account that we have a humane system and that we do not put people in prison who should not be in prison. We also have to look at other issues that will come before this committee, where there are people who are victims of serious violence or people who have been raped. There has to be a punishment. I know the Deputy is not saying that there should not be. Part of the purpose of prison is punishment and, second, it is rehabilitation.

Regarding the type of people who are in prison that the Deputy and I are particularly concerned about, unfortunately, many are there because of addiction issues and they have chaotic lives. We can help them. Part of the reason district judges put people in prison is that, as Deputy Ward mentioned, they are required to engage with services. Whereas if somebody is not given a short term of imprisonment, there is no way he or she can be forced to engage in counselling. That is what I regard as the purpose of prison – punishment and rehabilitation.

Our population has increased significantly. In 2011, we had a capacity of 4,400 and we now have a capacity of 4,600. We need more, and I am not a person who believes we should build lots of prisons. That will never solve it. However, we do need more spaces.