Paula Butterly (Louth, Fine Gael)

That is absolutely fine. I thank the Cathaoirleach.

It is fair to say that there is no fan, other than the Garda Commissioner, of the operating model as it exists. I work closely with the gardaí at all levels in my own area of County Louth. Everything I have heard today has been said to me time and again at county level.

I had a meeting with the Minister, Deputy O’Callaghan, a couple of weeks ago in which I brought forward some issues relating to the county. Mr. Clogher said we are taking the resources from the west and bringing them eastward. Yet, as Mr. Hodgins said, we do not feel that effect in County Louth because we have Drogheda and Dundalk, and a vast area in between, even though we are the wee county, where it is felt that our gardaí are being deployed from Ardee and Dunleer, which are rural areas, out to cover a concert in Dublin. When somebody rings, they are not there.

That also links into the points made about community policing. One issue that is always referred to is that the left does not know what the right is doing at a divisional level. For example, the drug squad in Drogheda may be working very well, but on the ground from a community policing area, it has extended beyond the boundaries of Drogheda with issues like drug intimidation, coercion and trying to draw the youth into dangerous and hazardous situations. We have one division chasing down and trying to secure seizures while the community police are not staffed properly enough, and they are not talking to each other. The silo, as it was referred to, and that knowledge is essential. I agree with all the witnesses. Resources here are sadly lacking.

Talking to the gardaí, what struck me was pensions was always the top topic. That has to be rectified, and that is also something I raised. I was astounded when it was brought to my attention that at entry level, members of An Garda Síochána are applying for HAP and putting themselves on the social housing lists. When this was brought to me, my mind was blown. It was also pointed out that not only are they going on the social housing list because they cannot reasonably afford a home, that is also an obstacle to policing because they do not put themselves forward for overtime since that would put them outside their allowance. It is not just a housing issue or an allowance issue. It is also denying them the possibility of overtime, as well as career progression because they are not putting themselves forward. I refer to the waiting times as well. I would like the witnesses’ thoughts on that.

At District Court level, my understanding is that the role of court presenter, who is generally a sergeant, was brought in to streamline the judicial process and not have dozens of gardaí stuck in a courtroom all day long and instead having them out on the roads. However, if I look in on the courts in Drogheda or Dundalk on any Monday or Wednesday, it is thronged. There are more gardaí sitting in the courtroom than there are accused. I would like the witnesses’ opinion on that. This role was created to avoid this but it does not seem to have worked at all