Dr. Karen Devine:

Yes. The term "principle-based pragmatism", iterated by the Minister of State, Deputy Thomas Byrne, and cited by the Deputy, is a great use of the Government's codewords and wordplay. In fact, states, and the EU, have to adhere to law. The other kind of phrase is "rules-based international system". Rather, international law is what the EU, Ireland and the Government have to adhere to. Principle-based pragmatism is just a code word for "we don't want to adhere to international law".

The Deputy pointed out that the Minister of State said that NATO is part of the picture. He stated that at an event at the Institute of International and European Affairs, which is an EU-funded think-tank. At that same location, a Swedish official said that Sweden is a member of NATO in all but Article 5 and has been for the past 20 years. The reason the Government wants to get rid of the triple lock is because, effectively, Ireland is in a similar position to Sweden prior to Sweden officially joining NATO, whereby unofficially, through the back door, it is a member. The Government cannot officially join NATO because it knows that only 13% to 14% of people in Ireland are in favour of that. The Government will mention the PFP, but that is essentially the reason to abolish the triple lock because the triple lock stands in the way of NATO and EU missions that will not have a UN Security Council or UN General Assembly mandate.

The Deputy mentioned the military industrial complex and the EU's plans on spending up to €800 billion to support it. He also asked me to speak about the requirement for a referendum. Because the triple lock is part of national policy, it is a matter of acute national importance to the people. We know this because it exists under the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties. It has an agreement in the international system.