Eileen Flynn (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I apologise for being absent but I had to leave to vote and talk to Dr. McDonagh. It has been a hectic day. I was not being rude or anything of the sort. I am interested in trying to break down barriers. Our justice system works for the few but not for the many, and that includes members of the Traveller community and people from other marginalised communities. Yesterday, I visited Castlerea Prison, where there is an over-representation of the Traveller community. There is also an over-representation of people with disabilities in prisons. Following on from what Professor Gulati said, I was speaking to a woman two days ago who said people will reoffend when they do not have anything on the outside and when they do not have the supports on the outside. Trauma, having a disability or being in denial about your disability are all factors that contribute to people ending up in prison.

Yesterday in Castlerea Prison, one of the figures we were told is that more than 70% of the prisoners are there for minor crimes. Every person's definition of "minor crimes" is very different and I will keep that in mind. We also need to be aware of psychological problems and issues that people have. We never think about the young man who has autism or the young woman with autism who ended up in prison. There are no wraparound supports for people with disabilities in prison. There are very few supports. A person has the right to a doctor, nurse or psychiatrist but even at that, those supports are not adequate supports for people in prison.

In his opening statement Professor Gulati spoke about the lack of support for people with autism. Outside of Ireland, are there any programmes that aim to address this gap? I would also like to hear about supports for people in the prison system who have psychological disabilities.

I spoke to Dr. Rosaleen McDonagh outside the committee room about my next question. It is to do with the issue of domestic violence towards disabled women. Dr. McDonagh is not here to answer the question herself but she has said she will submit her answer to the committee. She has a very interesting take on the matter.

I will move on to a question around the relationship between mental health and disability and the support we can give people in the prison system. It has been touched on already so I will not labour the point. Yesterday, it was heartbreaking for me to see so many people in Castlerea Prison for offences that I would see as petty crimes. Some people are being failed by the system. I saw a young man of 24 who had been in care for years. He has been failed by the State. He has been on remand in the prison for more than two years. That just broke my heart because there is little or no support available. People are judged on the basis of their disability as well if they keep reoffending and repeatedly end up back in court. How can we have wraparound supports for people with disabilities in prison? It is not something we talk about enough. This committee does not talk about it enough. One of the topics for the Traveller committee going forward will be the issue of Travellers in the justice system. Going forward, this committee could speak about people with disabilities in the justice system. It could look at solutions and how we can treat people as human beings in the prison system. I know I have spoken a lot. I would like to hear the witnesses' views on what we, as a committee, can do. Over the next few months the Traveller committee will be visiting prisons. However, it is not about going and gawking and saying "God help us"; it is actually about going and having meaningful recommendations. There is an identifier for members of the Traveller community. Is there an identifier for people with additional needs? Yesterday, we touched on an interesting point. Many people leave the education system at age 12 or 13. What are the reasons for this? Is it because some of these people have an intellectual disability or undiagnosed autism?

We know that poverty and coming from a poor economic background can have a big impact on crime in this country. I will never forget what a young man said to me in 2020. I had only been a Member of the Seanad for about two weeks at the time. He told me that he was up in court the following week. I told him that everything would be okay because it was his first offence and a minor one at that. He disagreed and told me that as soon as he walked into the courtroom he would be found guilty. I got a lump in my throat because I knew he was right. He would be guilty because he is a member of the Traveller community. In some cases, people are guilty because they have an intellectual or physical disability that has not been addressed or cared for. This is the fault of the State and our justice system, not the fault of the individual. Sorry, Chair, it is such a-----