Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

The enthusiasm of the witnesses for what they do is extraordinary. It is a great story to tell. It was fantastic to listen to Ms McDonnell tell the stories about the residents.

To a degree, the Chair has asked the question I was going to ask, which is what we can do going forward. What ask do the witnesses have of us? I think we have an idea of that in terms of what they have been saying to us today but if there is anything else that they think would be important that we could bring forward it is very important that we would do it.

I also extend a welcome to Ms Lennon and Mr. Boland, whom I know pretty well. They do a lot of good work in rural areas. I will come to them in a moment.

Does EnergyCloud deal with individuals or is it only communities? Can it deal with people on a one-to-one basis? Does it have a presence in every county? Can it look after a scheme in any county if people come to it?

Whatever happens, we all know that we are going to be doing a lot in terms of renewable energy, going forward. I believe we got a lot of things wrong. There was a promise, which I accept came from the Government, that we would have a low-interest loan, but it has not happened. It is good to hear it is going to happen but we have been talking about it for two years. There was a grant for solar panels but it was reduced. In my view, that should not have happened. Some people made the case to me that the cost of the project reduced, but if we look at some of the Nordic countries, they have a massive grant for solar panels of up to 80% or 90%.

Ms Lennon and Mr. Boland are bang on the button. The Chair will know this. When we go into houses in rural areas, the shape they are in is incredibly bad. If there is anything upsetting in this day and age, given that Ireland is a wealthy country, it is to see mould growing on walls inside a house. First, it is very bad for people's health. It is very sad, in particular for older people who have reared their families and the families have gone away. There are other people with lots of money who do not want to invest in their homes. That is fine. We cannot do anything with those. There is really bad housing. Some houses that we go to do not have proper footpaths around them, and the damp is right up to the walls.

What has happened with the retrofitting, and I do not want to take away from the good work that is going on in the Department, is that it has become complicated. This has been said, but I will reiterate it, that the simple thing is to have proper doors, proper windows, and insulated attics and walls, particularly for people who have moved into the later stages of life. Given the pace at which is going now, many of those people will never see it, and that is a fact. I am dealing with cases where it is taking up to three to four years. There is an awful lot to be said for when we had a very straightforward way of putting in doors, windows and insulation. It may have been mentioned by Deputy Ó Cuív that there are lots of small family builders who are no longer involved in house building and who are more than willing to take up this work. They have been experts at doing it for years. We are missing a huge opportunity by not going back and having a look at this. When we talk about the deep retrofitting scheme, and even the simpler scheme, that simpler scheme does not look simple to people who want to make those basic changes to their homes.

To Ms Lennon and Mr. Boland, what is their ask of us today? Do they want us to go back to the Minister and the Government and say we need to go back to a lot of basics? It is upsetting to us all when we see the conditions some people live in. I do not think we in Ireland in 2024 realise the bad housing conditions there are in some parts of the country. It is quite upsetting to me when I look at it. Basically, what do the witnesses think about that? Do we need to go back? Do we need to have another look at this? There is a lot of money around the schemes. There is any amount of money. It is a pity we are just not investing it in a different way, especially for the people who are most in need.

Again, incredible work is being done by both groups and there is a really exciting story there. This is a road we will have to go down, but there are things we are losing out on. As I have said, I do not see why we would reduce the grant on solar panels. I do not see why it is taking so long to involve the credit unions with the low-cost loan. Those things are holding everything back.