Mr. Martin Collins:

This is genuinely my last point. I sound like Miriam O'Callaghan saying the word "genuinely". As I said, we are at a positive time in Traveller inclusion and visibility in the arts, and there are good relationships developing between Traveller groups, the Arts Council and the Heritage Council. Travellers are named in the Heritage Council's strategic plan that was launched here only a couple of weeks ago and that Ms McCabe, I and others attended. It is important that we are named in it. There is an opening to working with Traveller groups to develop this area.

As I said, there are Travellers who are well established. These are the likes of Rosaleen McDonagh, John Connors, Martin Beanz Ward, Michael Collins, Leanne McDonagh and many others.

They are fantastic and are doing great work.

As Traveller organisations, we have a role to play so that we do not end up replicating what happened in the settled community. Let us be straight about this: at one stage - not too long ago in fact - arts and access to arts and culture was very elitist. Ethnic minorities were not the only ones who were excluded. There was a class issue as well. It was primarily for the middle and upper classes, who were able to access and participate in culture and the arts. Thankfully, that is now beginning to be dismantles. Many groups that were not represented in the area of arts and culture are now beginning to access them. However, we are not at the place we want to be. As a result, we need to encourage and promote that further.

The role of Traveller organisations is to make sure that we do not replicate what happened in the settled community. In other words, that it becomes elitist in the Travelling community and only certain individuals are able to access and participate in the arts. We have an obligation to ensure that as many Travellers as possible are encouraged, and that we create the conditions where they are able to contribute to or participate in the arts. I would just caution against that: we could replicate what happened in the settled community, and we need to avoid that.