Tom Clonan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Ellis for allowing me to step in. Unfortunately, I have to leave at 10.40 a.m. and I just want to ask a couple of questions before then. I thank the witnesses for coming in. They will know the saying “When gardaí start to look young”, but when assistant secretaries general start to look young, I come to the depressing conclusion that I am just getting older.

In regard to agriculture, I am from Dublin and my dad was from Drumcondra in Dublin. He was a garda and in the 1950s, when he came out of the Garda Training Depot in the Phoenix Park, he was sent to Cahir in County Tipperary. He was really anxious to find crime in 1950s rural Tipperary but he was unsuccessful. He did question a number of farmers about bull licences and they very gently pointed out to him the difference between a male bull and a female cow. I just want to foreground my absolute and complete ignorance of the agricultural sector before I make my observations.

In regard to disability, the witnesses mentioned a number of funds that the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine administers to promote and support farmers. Farming has 10% of the workforce but it has a very high accident rate. Since I have come into this role as a Senator, I have been contacted by a high number of people from the farming community who have been injured in accidents. According to Teagasc, there were over 4,500 farm accidents last year and many accidents lead to persons having disabilities. The injuries can be permanent and, for example, people can lose an arm or a leg through an accident with the drive shaft, which I understand is a common cause of farm accidents for farm operators or members of their family.

In regard to those payments, does the Department give special consideration in those application processes to farmers who have become disabled or, if a farmer is in receipt of disability allowance, does it in any way compromise their eligibility for some of the other payments? I ask the Department to consider that in the context that I am going to ask the Department of Social Protection about this. Again, I thank the witnesses from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine for coming in.

With regard to the Department of Social Protection, I have two questions. One is outside the control of the Department and I appreciate the witnesses are public servants; they do not make policy and they are tasked with implementing it. However, the other question is on an issue that the Department could take some action on.

With regard to the Indecon survey, the witnesses said that the average extra cost per household of the cost of disability is between €9,000 and €11,800. I did a rough calculation and I note that the disability allowance per annum is €11,440, which is a tiny amount of money. My question concerns an issue over which the witnesses probably do not have much control. I cannot remember the exact phrase used but the witnesses talked about “earning up to €165” and so on. Really, for persons with a disability, that should be a universal payment like children's allowance and it should not be in any way mitigated if a person has the capacity to earn. There are some 220,000 people on disability allowance or invalidity payments. Given the amount of time and effort the Department is investing in administering and checking that and the mitigation of those payments, I think it would be better invested in making sure that everybody who is entitled to a payment gets it, and that it should be as easy as possible.

The barriers to participation in Ireland's cultural, social and economic life are very significant for persons with disabilities. I think we are close to the bottom of the class in Europe when it comes to participation in the workplace. Part of that is because of what Indecon observed, which is that a better way of using the resources the Department has available to it would be to make sure there is access to services. However, there is no access to services in Ireland, and that is the reality. This committee heard the CEO of the HSE just before Christmas, on the record, say that progressing disability services in the community, such as physio and all of the supports we are talking about, has failed and that we are actually in failure. I am sure Indecon are lovely people but the reality is that those services do not exist on the ground.

What I am trying to communicate is how difficult it is to just get out of bed in the morning, to get dressed, to be toileted and to be fed, and all in the absence of adequate provision of personal assistance, which is another failure in our system. The reason the participation rate is so low is because of all of those barriers and obstacles, so, for me, the idea that any payments would be mitigated because a person has managed to earn some income is something that should not happen. I know it is not something the Department has control over but if the officials are talking to the relevant Minister or Minister of State, they could say that this is an idea.

On what is within the Department’s control, we have had evidence here from people like Emilie Conway, who is partially sighted and a disabled artist. Apparently, when a disabled artist gets an award from the Arts Council, the amount of the award they are given is deducted from their disability allowance or whatever benefit they are getting. Again, I think that is within the gift of the Department, if the officials present today could talk to their counterparts in the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media. That should not be happening. For a disabled artist to make a contribution and to be awarded and recognised in that way, and to have a grant made available to them to encourage their art and get it to a critical point where they could actually contribute and generate revenue in the Republic, it seems particularly cruel and unnecessary to make such a deduction.

If the Department has any discretion in that regard, or if the officials can even talk their counterparts in the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media with a view to eliminating that practice, I ask them to do so. I imagine it is just a matter of the two Departments engaging with each other.

Finally, on the remit of the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, this week RTÉ reported that there are 1,300 disabled young people under the age of 65 who are inappropriately housed in nursing homes in the State. That is completely and utterly unacceptable. As the parent of a young man who has a disability and who would like to live independently, it is very frightening to think that your adult child would end up in a nursing home. As one disabled young man in his 30s said, he is in an old folks' home and he feels lost.

The Government, by its own definition, defines an emergency as a situation where local resources have become overwhelmed and there is a requirement for a national response. That is the Government's own definition of an emergency. In respect of the housing crisis and homelessness, as we all know, we are in a perfect storm that is no one's fault, with the war in Ukraine, the housing, social and affordable housing crisis that was there anyway, plus the hundreds of people coming to Ireland seeking international protection. It is an emergency now, not a crisis. I did a bit of research on this. The national emergency task force in Government, the emergency steering committee and all those things, have all now operated since 2020. The latest report of the committee was issued by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage in November 2021. The task force has been replaced by the national steering group. The body in the Republic that is tasked with dealing with emergencies is the national steering group, which I believe resides within the Department. It has a secretariat to support it. I think it is high time that the Department declared an emergency. According to the Department's own guidelines, it has identified two principal agencies and one lead agency to deal with homelessness. Obviously, in the case of housing for citizens with disabilities, the lead agency would be the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. Two other agencies might possibly be stakeholder groups. I do not know. The national emergency co-ordination centre, once activated, is empowered to bring all of the private and public sector together to deal with the crisis. Definitely, persons with disabilities are disproportionately impacted by homelessness. One in four homeless people at the moment have a disability. A bit like the very low participation rates in paid employment, that places us very close to the bottom of the league in the EU. I know that housing allocation officers throughout the local authorities are really good people and they are very proactive. They engage with families and really try to assist, but it requires a whole-of-government approach. I am aware of lots of cases where the housing allocation officer will ask the person and the family if they have a care package in place to support that person. Really, the basic fundamental human right to housing and shelter should not be predicated upon the HSE's unwillingness to administer a care package - and I have seen it. Very often, it is not a lack of resources, but an unwillingness actually to do the administration and administer a home care package. The right of disabled people to housing should not be predicated on that. By declaring an emergency, it would be easier to take a whole-of-government interagency approach to try to drive this thing forward, because, as I said, it is not a crisis; it is an emergency. I thank the witnesses for their patience and for coming in today. I know that was a very long-winded set of questions.