Colm Brophy (Dublin South West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I was going to come in with questions at the end but, as they are linked with the matters raised by Deputy Howlin, I will ask them now and the witnesses can reply to both sets of questions.

In terms of security architecture and where we are gong in future, there are two things that play into the consideration. The first is the impact of Brexit. Many people forget the balancing element the UK played within the EU in terms of its key role and view on NATO, as distinct from the EU, as a security deliverer. The absence of that voice within the European family in future deliberations will be a key driver in terms of where Europe sees itself going. The other issue, which is central to what Deputy Howlin was saying, relates to looking realistically beyond the Ukraine war to where America will see its geopolitical positioning. This is relevant not just in the context of a Trumpian-style presidency. Obama pivoted towards the Pacific and the issues America faces in that arena. A glaring situation that arises, which is fascinating to see at first hand, is that we have such a eurocentric media-shaped view of how people perceive something like the conflict in Ukraine. When one steps outside that, one can see that many countries, particularly those in the southern hemisphere, such as in Africa, do not share the views of western EU members on security and co-operation or a conflict such as the Ukraine war. It is a worrying point. I return to an earlier question on how important the EU will need to be in terms of outward engagement and reach. There is a necessity to respond and proactively engage in developing a European view that is not just an adjunct view to that of the United States. Those are the issues that will begin to manifest. An interesting aspect to this will be that if the EU expands into the Balkans and Ukraine and possibly into Georgia, how will that shape the view of European co-operation and defence co-operation? That is where we will end up, perhaps in a decade or more. Where do the witnesses see such expansion fitting in with the current structures and the implications for them?