Mr. Tony Collins:

We still have a relationship with the sponsoring employer as we retire. Our pensions are deferred wages. We have the relationship for our lifetime. To have the existing workers sitting down to negotiate on pension rights and the retired workers not be there is an equality issue. We need to be there to defend those rights. I have given examples. In our case, it was the ESB, where we were not at the table. To this very day, the agreement, which has no end date and has been there for the past 13 years, is still being applied. We are still being negatively affected by the agreement. Our relationship is with the sponsoring employer. We should have that right to negotiate with them. Like the existing workers, we should be able to go somewhere for dispute resolution. As my colleague, Mr. Foley, said, it does not have to be the WRC, but one wants a body that has an equal standing and the same authority as the WRC.