Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

That is an interesting conversation which refers to many aspects of working in the public service and transferring on to the private sector, and vice versa. However, Deputy Doherty made an interesting reference to the teachers who become Deputies or Senators. It could be significant in their pension entitlements in the event that they serve one term or a short term of office in the Oireachtas and then find themselves with insufficient pension entitlements. They might go back to the public service in teaching positions and they may have several years to go, a short number of years to go or insufficient years to go to achieve a full pension. They could well find themselves at a distinct disadvantage. My humble suggestion would be that those who are replacements should be able to go forward on the basis that they could achieve permanency after a short number of years and acquire full pension entitlements. That is one of the things that needs to be looked at and done.

I am sure the Chairman already knows the following. I made reference to the Defence Forces and much is made today of the fact that it is difficult to recruit and retain people there. It is difficult because the Oireachtas took away those entitlements they had where the person who had entered the Defence Forces spent 21 years there and walked away with a full pension. This person could take a part-time job or a smaller job that was sufficient to meet their requirements and that may have been in line with their needs to do less work and so on. We have taken that away and it creates an obstacle to recruitment in the Defence Forces.

The following matter also needs to be borne in mind. There is a system in the Defence Forces involving individuals who suffered personal injuries and who claimed and obtained compensation, be it 20 years ago, 30 years ago or whatever. In those cases, assuming the person has been discharged from the Defence Forces as being unfit to serve due to their injuries, they then qualify for a pension. In the course of the payment of that pension, a sum is deducted on a monthly basis to recover the payment made in respect of compensation, which is an appalling decision and this measure is regularly enforced. The phrase in the Army Pensions Act 1927 states that "The Minister may" recover all or part of the amount of the previous award in determining the amount of pension the person may get. It is an appalling thing to do to people who have served the country and who have been injured to the extent that they were no longer able to serve in the Defence Forces. The Act says "The Minister may"; it does not say "The Minister shall" but we know all about that phrase over the years, what it means and the implications for the public service. That is another matter that needs to be looked at in order to be fair to people who work in the public service and the private sector and who have reason to change over.

Those two issues need to be looked at. Deputy Doherty is right regarding the point relating to teachers. I would like to see a major change on the issue I referred to in respect of the Defence Forces.