Ms Paula Prendeville:

I thank Deputy Tully for all those comments. She certainly covered an awful lot so I will do my best to respond to them in the order she made reference to them, if that is okay. First of all, we in the NCSE are very much looking forward to launching our policy advice. It is at an advanced stage of development so it will be forthcoming in the next few months. As I mentioned in the opening statement, the NCSE has a vision of an inclusive educational system and recognise it is going to take time to have that progressive realisation of a fully inclusive system. The Deputy brought up some interesting comments and it is great she is coming from the perspective of teachers because, certainly, when you are on the ground and you see what is happening in schools, you have a very real sense of what is going on.

The Deputy first mentioned progressing disability services and its national roll-out. We do not have a role in that. It is a matter for the Minister for Health and his colleagues with regard to how that is progressing and the changes to the provision of supports in special schools we have.

On the school inclusion model, the first iteration of that was a demonstration project where we worked in tandem with our colleagues in the Department with responsibility for children, the HSE and the Department of Education to pilot a project where therapists were working in early years settings and in our schools to support that model of practice. The first iteration of that was early years settings and primary and post-primary and special schools in 75 early years and 75 school settings. There was an initial report done on that which I referenced in my opening statement.

It was certainly very well received.

Then we had Covid and therapists from the HSE were removed from the schools because they had to address front-line issues that were cropping up so the project was paused and it had to reviewed with regard to moving forward from the recommendations of that early demonstration project, how it could be embedded and the school inclusion models developed as a result. That project was paused. We have had difficulties accessing therapists for this project simply because there are not enough therapists qualifying and on the ground to be able to fill these posts so that would be the concern across health and education. Our therapists and behavioural practitioners return to school in October of this year in collaboration with our NEPS colleagues. Obviously, the data has not yet been gathered on this but we have been told in schools that in respect of the early supports they had prior to the project being paused, when teachers went back into schools, they were still using and embedding those supports and it really demonstrated on the ground that this capacity building model is working very well in schools. For example, our therapy colleagues have developed a sensory spaces booklet, which is being disseminated to all primary schools, and also provided supports to post-primary schools around movement breaks to address the sensory needs of students. Those practices have continued and are being very much embedded. The early experiences of teachers having access to therapists to build capacity in the schools have been very positive to date and have been very much welcomed in schools and teachers are very open to that support.

It is important for the Deputy's constituents' wider community to recognise that the building capacity model means the NCSE and its colleagues in education develop a knowledge base and understanding of disabilities and schools via teachers and teacher professional learning initiatives. Teachers work in collaboration with SNAs to support the care needs of very high-needs students and ensure they are embedded. It is not about therapists working directly with students. I mean the therapists in the NCSE - speech and language therapists, occupational therapists and behavioural practitioners. Our colleagues in NEPS still work on a one-to-one basis with students, which is different. It is really important that people recognise that. Research has demonstrated that capacity building models have a far greater long-term impact on students compared with the one-to-one therapy approach. I know that is a mindset that needs to change over time because we recognise that we can reach and support a higher number of students across the entire system not just students who have disabilities. This benefits all students with a school community to build an inclusive culture in our schools. This is something that is really important for us to recognise.

The philosophy of embedding a universal design approach, which was raised by other speakers today, is very important to the work of building capacity. It involves looking at spaces in schools and being creative, open and supportive around that to ensure our students are supported as much as possible within the school space. I am not sure if the Deputy has any other questions that address the main issues she raised with me earlier.