Pauline Tully (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I thank everyone for presenting at the meeting. I especially thank Ms Kelly, Ms Lawless and Ms Newman for sharing their lived experiences with us. I commend all the organisations, namely, WALK, National Learning Network and the NCSE, for the work they do as well.

We are talking about education and further education and training and we have referenced Article 24 of the UNCRPD, which is around inclusive education. When I speak to parents of children with additional needs about inclusive education, they get very fearful because they think their child with an additional need is going to be sent into mainstream school and not have the supports he or she needs. We are all nervous about our children starting school, whether it is primary or secondary school especially, but if he or she has an additional need and you feel the supports are not there, you feel extra nervous about it.

I am interested in our guests' vision of inclusive education and how that can be achieved. We are hearing about many students with intellectual disabilities leaving school without qualifications, so we obviously do not have inclusive education. We do not have an education system that works if students are leaving second level without any qualifications and are having to pursue other avenues to obtain one. It is proven that, with the proper supports, they are very capable of obtaining the qualifications and moving on.

I am very interested in the school inclusion model Ms Prendeville referenced and ask that she expand on that. I think it is a pilot programme at the moment. The new progressing disability services model is being rolled out. We are hearing supports are being taken out of special schools. Speech and language therapists, occupational therapists or psychologists are being removed from where they have always been before, that is, supporting the students. Parents are very annoyed because this is being done without a risk assessment. The students with very complex needs are especially nervous because they feel there is a real danger to them in this being done. By contrast, Ms Prendeville is talking about a system where we are putting therapists into schools to support students in schools. That is an excellent model. I am aware there is a difficulty there with front-line healthcare workers in that there are not enough of them and that needs to be looked at and planned for. What we are seeing now is students have to be taken out of school and brought to a service. That is when the services get up and running and provision is being given, which is not happening at the moment, but we are hoping it will. It means removing a student from a school for perhaps hours in a day, whereas if the services were available in the school, he or she could receive them there.

When the therapists are working with the teachers, the teachers are learning as well. Teachers in particular must have disability training as part of their teaching programme and that is not happening. It is very limited. I come from an educational background so I know it is not given. Many teachers and parents will tell you that while many teachers in a school will do their utmost to support their students, not all of them do. Some of them have very archaic attitudes. Training is, therefore, very important. Training for employers is very important because many of us, as a witness said last week, are not familiar with disability. How do we get familiar with it? We do so by having disabled people in our schools, our workplaces and so on but we cannot do that until people are willing to have the training and to open up and accept people.

The cost of disability has been mentioned again. The Indecon report published before Christmas indicated the cost of disability is anywhere between €9,500 and €12,000. Ms Lawless mentioned the lack of flexibility to pursue courses in college that might take a someone with a disability longer than someone without one. There is also the fact there is no top-up grant, and the fear of losing the disability payment and the secondary entitlements is another issue that must be tackled.

I have mentioned a good few things there. The presentations were excellent and I would love to hear further comments on what I mentioned.