Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome our speakers. I know Dr. McGann, Mr. Berney and Ms Redmond and my first experience in politics was an industrial closure when Mr. Berney was representing the workers and it is great to see him here.

What is the evidence of what has happened during the Covid pandemic to people with work permits? Have we seen people with work permits returning? Will there be an expectation of many renewals coming up? We know that areas in the caring sector are under very severe pressure but what is happening in other areas of the economy where there is a higher density of low-skill, as opposed to high-skill, personnel? We know about the story in the high-skills sectors. As Mr. Berney indicates, there are concerns about high unemployment. We must also be fair to people who have expectations and so on and we must have a system that works.

A second point concerns apprenticeships and upskilling. To what extent do IBEC or ICTU have evidence that sectors which are big users of the permit scheme are running apprenticeships and have they stepped up their performance with such apprenticeships? What is the blockage? There is a CAO process for going to third level but there is no equivalent clearing house for people who want to opt into apprenticeships. Has either IBEC or ICTU thoughts on how to develop an easier way of getting in? Currently it is about getting individual employment contracts and it is very much who one knows. It can be tricky.

I take the point made about the meat industry and it seems there are problems. Equally, it would not be fair to pick one sector, looking at all the potential offences and say it represents all employers using these schemes. We should not visit on those who work in a legitimate way the failings of those who abuse the processes. I am interested in the comments of both ICTU and IBEC on something mentioned by the previous speaker; should there be a clearer way that if the mechanism is abused, it will be closed to a party for a certain period. Do we need to see some sort of quid pro quoin this regard?

Mr. Berney has said there are no legislative changes here for migrant workers. What is he suggesting? In general we have tended to say the same labour law applies to everybody. Should we be considering, for example, the referral of some of these matters to the Low Pay Commission, which has expertise on both sides of industry? It can look at some of these areas and potential failings in how law is either designed or executed.