John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I will be fairly brief because a lot has been covered at this stage. I have a few questions, which are mainly directed at IBEC. I am not sure whether it is being done purposely but listening to some of the comments about the Bill and companies being unable to look into the distance when these contracts, which is essentially what they are, are signed off on, this Bill has come forward, although it is not the only Bill. There are a number of Bills. I have brought forward one, as has the Labour Party. Indeed the Government was looking at heads of Bill as well so there are serious concerns here, which is why it needs to be addressed. We are all very aware of the high-profile companies, all of which are highly profitable, in the recent past that have shifted defined benefit to defined contribution schemes. Even looking into the future, I am sure those profits are fairly secure.

I do not know whether Mr. Donohoe is deliberately trying to muddy the waters but there is no attempt to force employers to establish or pay into a defined benefit scheme through this Bill. Employers establish and pay into defined benefit schemes through their own will and this Bill will not change that. This is about solvent companies that are choosing to renege on their pension commitments to employees not because of financial difficulties but, essentially, to remove the risk from their own books. That is the issue this Bill is trying to address. The other legislative items that have been brought forward have also tried to address it. I think IBEC is deliberately trying to mislead people on this matter. What is IBEC's view about highly profitable companies that have wound down their schemes? They include some very high-profile companies. What is IBEC's position regarding those companies shutting down those schemes? I will not delay things. All the points I wanted to raise have essentially been covered. What is IBEC's position on highly profitable companies shutting down defined benefit schemes? The witnesses from IBEC say there is no need for legislation and that the protections there. Clearly, this is not the case and legislation is needed. What is Mr. Donohoe's view on that?