Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

We are all agreed the issue of conscientious objection is very sensitive and held very dearly and reasonably by many medics who are opposed to termination of pregnancy. Many genuine doctors, nurses and midwives throughout the country have been in touch with the Minister, me and all of us to state they have serious concerns about aspects of conscientious objection. It is incumbent upon us to treat these concerns with the utmost seriousness.

I have some questions. The conscientious objection section essentially states two things. It states, "nothing in this Act shall be construed as obliging any medical practitioner, nurse or midwife to carry out, or to participate in carrying out, a termination of pregnancy in accordance with section 10, 12 or 13". The conscientious objection is waived in emergencies, in line with all medical law. Certainly the doctors, nurses and midwives who have been in touch with me do not have an issue with this part of the section. They understand they are being given an exemption and they do not have to participate in any way. I have not had a concern raised with me about this. The second element is the kernel of where people are looking for clarity. Section 23(3) states "A person who has a conscientious objection referred to in subsection (1)shall, as soon as may be, make such arrangements for the transfer of care of the pregnant woman concerned as may be necessary to enable the woman to avail of the termination of pregnancy concerned." I have several questions on both parts of the section, if I may.

The first part exempts from participating in or carrying out a termination and we know from the legislation that it applies to medical practitioners, nurses and midwives. Does it include student doctors, student nurses and pharmacists, either here or in other legislation? As for the transfer of care, the question for a clinician reading this will be what does transfer of care mean. There may be some out there but none of the doctors, nurses and midwives to whom I have spoken have said they will opt out of it and that is the end of the conversation. What they are asking me is what transfer of care means. One interpretation, which we discussed yesterday, is the idea that it is to enable the woman to avail of termination of pregnancy. This could be in a normal case, and not in an emergency case or exceptional case, where a woman is in with her GP who will state he or she will not participate and will conscientiously object but will provide information on the 24-7 helpline staffed by trained clinicians, including doctors, nurses and midwives, give her the phone number and explain there is an opt-in protocol in place for other GPs and that if the woman rings the number, she will be given details of a number of GPs. One therefore is enabling the woman to avail of termination of pregnancy services. We could go to the other extreme, which might be interpreted as stating the GP must contact a colleague, transfer the patient files and discuss the case. Certainly the medics to whom I have spoken have said they are okay with the first of these. They are okay with telling the woman they are conscientiously objecting and giving her the telephone number of the 24-7 helpline and explaining all of the supports that are there. Except in cases where it is medically required, they really do not want a situation where they are heavily involved in transferring case notes and finding colleagues.

Will the Minister address those two points, as it might go a long way to dealing with some of the real concerns that exist?