Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

The other amendments seek to tidy up the elements on freedom of conscience. Amendment No. 148 looks to delete "or midwife" and substitute "midwife, hospital or institution". There is a great argument as to whether institutions have an entitlement to freedom of conscience or conscientious objection. There are many constitutional reasons to state they do because many of them are run by voluntary organisations that under the Constitution have a right to their particular ethos. Some might say Fine Gael has an ethos and the question is whether one can prevent Fine Gael from proceeding with that ethos and can force it onto a certain direction. I would say that should not happen. Even if we forget about what could happen in the future on this, there is a practical element to it. Yesterday, I mentioned three hospitals where the majority of health workers have stated they will not proceed. I will give the Minister more clean information on this today. The general manager of one of these hospitals has told the CEO of the hospital group it will not participate in the process. We have the moral argument I am making and we also have the reality in which we are functioning. To ignore both in the process with regard to institutions would be a folly.

To a certain extent we are all talking about the details of this and how it will work but it will engage with the real-life crisis in every element of the health service. If we are going to create an abortion service we have to make it real-life-proof. Obviously hospitals are opting out from this even before meeting Dr. Peter Boylan so there is a difficulty for the Minister that has to be recognised. This is the desire of amendment No. 148.

Amendment No. 149 proposes to delete a subsection and remove the new obligation in the Bill for a doctor who has an objection to making arrangements. This is one of the most contentious provisions in the Bill for the medical profession. As I mentioned earlier, the GP system is stuffed at present and is under fierce pressure. Nobody can get an appointment with a GP for love nor money. The GPs in my town are not taking on new patients. If I were to ring a GP now for an appointment, I would be lucky to get it for next Tuesday or Wednesday. This is the reality. What will the Minister do to the 650 doctors? This is a real question. What will happen to the 650 doctors if they refuse this? Will they be stripped of their ability to practice medicine? Will they be brought in some way to a court? If they continue to refuse will they end up incarcerated? What penalties will happen to a doctor who refuses to make arrangements? Making arrangements is an activity. It is not a passive element. Other abortion services elsewhere in the world function without it. I will leave it at that as I know other Deputies want to speak on this.