Brian Stanley (Laois, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I thank Mr. Allen and Mr. Muttitt for their interesting presentations. The debate is moving into the stage on how we generate not just clean power but have a consistent supply. How do we have power when the wind turbines do not turn on those calm and cold frosty nights in the wintertime when there is a high demand for energy or when the sun is not shining and we cannot get power from solar? This is the crux of the discussion and the witnesses' contributions are useful in that regard.

Sinn Féin has done some analysis of this space and how to deal with it over the past several years. We have come up with some proposals around biogas and other sources to generate power and to, at least, start to provide for a baseload for dispatchable power. Many renewables are intermittent which is a significant challenge.

I am interested in the point made by Mr. Allen that demand for power in Britain could be reduced by 60%. We are all agreed that we use significant amounts of energy unnecessarily through generating packaging, unnecessary transport and lack of clever thinking and economic development.

How realistic is the planned 60% reduction in CO2 emissions over the next 20 years in the United Kingdom? The situation here is somewhat different but we need to move in the same direction in terms of reducing emissions. I ask Mr. Allen to explain the baseload more plainly. It is the main issue of concern for many people. Mr. Allen and Mr. Muttitt referenced renewable gas. Mr. Allen highlighted it as a solution in the scenario he presented. Has renewable gas been used elsewhere in a significant way? How does it compare with fossil fuel natural gas in terms of CO2 emissions?

The presentation provided by Mr. Allen, which I read before the meeting, deals with the storage of energy. That issue has not been cracked, apart from the limited storage afforded by batteries in terms of charging motor vehicles at certain times and hydropumps, of which Turlough Hill is the one example in the State. When there is an excess of energy, water is pumped up the hill to a lake there and, when energy is needed, the water flows down and turns turbines. What other methods can be used to store energy? Industry figures have indicated that hydropower such as that generated in Turlough Hill only has the capacity to generate a very small percentage of our electricity needs. What is Mr. Allen's view in that regard?

The presentation by Mr Muttitt was very good in terms of addressing the bigger picture. He stated that using conventional gas will not get us to where we need to be in terms of the Paris Accord. We must remember that the 1.5% reduction agreed under the accord is the absolute minimum we must reach. Many members believe we must go much further than that. Mr. Muttitt stated that 100% renewable energy is possible. However, dispatchable power must form part of that.

Per head of population, the agricultural industry here is far larger than that in the United Kingdom and more land is used for agricultural purposes. There is usually excellent grass growth, except this year as there has been little rain over the past two months. How realistic is biogas as a source of energy? I brought forward a paper on biogas because I see it as a way forward. How realistic is the use of biogas in terms of meeting the significant amount of dispatchable power needed in Ireland, particularly given the size of our agricultural industry? The paper I presented outlined that it can produce 10% of electricity needed. Does Mr. Muttitt believe that percentage could be increased? What percentage of energy need in Britain can be met through biogas?

The good news is that the cost of offshore wind energy production is decreasing. There has been an aversion to developing offshore wind power in this country. Rather, onshore wind power generation has been pursued because that is what the multinational investors want. The part of the country from which I come, the midlands, is in the middle of the saucer. Giant turbines of 550 ft in height are being erected in many midlands areas. The turbines need to be of such a height to reach the appropriate wind current.

How realistic is it to use offshore energy as security of supply? I know the wind blows more frequently on the sea. I was at the seaside in Wexford on Sunday and there was very little wind out on the Irish Sea. How much of a reduction do the witnesses expect in the percentage of CO2 emissions from coal and oil if we were to move completely to natural gas? The dominant thinking in governments in Europe is that we have plenty of natural gas, that there is more to explore off Ireland and that Russia has plenty. What is the difference in Oil Change International's analysis between the percentage of CO2 emissions of conventional gas compared with oil and coal?