Mr. Tom Cronin:

That was just a starting point. It was probably a good idea to set up Caranua initially. More than 250 people representing survivor groups met at the Department of Education and Skills. The majority of them were not in favour of Caranua. Most of them were in favour of either giving the survivors a lump sum or if it was felt that was too dangerous and that they would not know how to handle such an amount, it was advocated that it should be paid in a pension and perhaps twice a year to the survivors. I thought that was a very good idea. That would probably have a much better option at that time.

However, the Department at the time decided that Caranua would be the vehicle to help those people. Perhaps nobody was looking at Caranua. It became self-governing. It structured the group for its own benefit and not for the benefit of survivors. The problems started to pile up early on and they were compounded as time went on. They worsened until we arrived at the situation we have today where survivors are scraping around for the crumbs of €15,000. That was never part of the policy initially when the documents were signed off in the Dáil. The policy was open ended. It was said to me many times that some people might be more greedy and that they would be looking for more money and others would look for less. That was a problem that should have been sorted out by the people in Caranua and the Department. That was never done.

When Caranua decided the fund was being depleted quickly, a ceiling of €15,000 was put on payments, with the result that people who had looked for white goods, necessary stuff, as Dr. Lodato alluded to, they were told they had exceeded the €15,000 limit and they were not entitled to them. The same happened with people who were looking for burial funds. At an early stage, it was flagged up that many of the survivors did not have insurance, they had no people belonging to them and when they died, they would have nowhere to go. They did not have any burial insurance. The Minister indicated that he would facilitate such payments. However, those who had exceeded the €15,000 limit were excluded from the payment. There is no inclusion. The mistakes were compounded. It was one mistake after the other and then Caranua tried to cover up its mistakes or bad management.

It was not survivor-friendly from day one. The mistakes were compounded and hidden away. The situation became intolerable. Now there is the position where there are survivors scratching around for €15,000. It was said at one of the meetings that I attended that it might be reduced down to €10,000 or even €5,000.