Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I apologise for being late. I have special knowledge of this area, being the wonderful Minister who brought in the damned legislation in the first place and lost my job as a result. Thankfully I kept my seat so that people realised what I was saying was the truth all along. I recognise a lot of the issues here. There are areas where I agree with the representations and areas where I disagree. That is fair enough. I absolutely agree on the single most important point made, which is that if Irish Water is to be set up, it should be absolutely on its own grounds. It should not be involved with Ervia or any other organisation.

I attended a meeting attended by a number of Ministers of the day and senior executives of local government, Irish Water and Ervia. I very strongly made the point that I was totally opposed to Ervia being involved in any make, shape or form and I remain so. If Irish Water is to have a future, which I believe it should, it must be as an independent stand-alone organisation, separate in every way from any other organisation. I agree and concur with the views of the Minister and indeed everybody here who has spoken. There should be a referendum on the ownership of Irish Water to the effect that the only shareholder can be the State. I will absolutely support that.

When we were setting it up, a key point was the concept that nobody would have to change his or her job. If people worked on water infrastructure for a local authority, they would have an option to move into another part of the local authority if they wished. There was no blunderbuss or gun to the head forcing them to go to Irish Water. However, engineers and other workers had an option to join Irish Water if they wished. A lot of them did so. I know lots of them. They have a career with which they are happy. However, if someone was not happy with it, the other option was to stay with his or her local authority. If there was work such people could do or wanted to do, there would be a place for them for the rest of their days. However, there was never any question of involuntary movement of people from employment at a local authority to anywhere else. I would be absolutely opposed to that and the unions are absolutely right to remain firm on that point.

At the time, our vision of Irish Water was that it would generate new synergies. Dublin was mentioned but Dublin is a stand-alone organisation that basically has the capacity to run on its own because it is such a big city. However, problems arise in smaller counties with disparate water supplies. I think County Kerry has 30 or 40 separate water supplies, as opposed to the main line that can be used in places like County Kildare. There are huge advantages for poorer counties where a lot of water is being wasted and which did not have the necessary investment as such capital investment was not available to the local government. Roscommon County Council, for instance, did not have the money to repair the pipes through which it was losing 60% of its water. It was a joke and was not sustainable. The amount water that was being lost throughout the country was entirely unacceptable.

Regarding the question of scale of regional development, I note the comments made by the witnesses. The unions recognise that a regional operation would have synergies, and would improve services for people in areas that would not otherwise have the capacity to have proper safe and potable water. I do not have the map in front of me, but I understand that one of the problems encountered in Kerry was that a whole new line through the centre of the county was needed. The council just could not do it but Irish Water could. There are lots of fantastic things Irish Water can do and is doing.

I live in County Louth, where we have had significant interruptions of supply at Staleen. The last interruption in supply was a couple of weeks ago. I went out at 7 a.m. to find that the workers had been working all night. They went in and worked under floodlights. They gave every single moment they could at no notice at all. They went straight out, and there were at least 15 or 20 of them when I was there. I want to put on record that the commitment of the workers to public service is second to none. It was absolutely fantastic and we do not want to lose that either. What the unions are bringing to the table is the experience, the commitment, the workforce, the skills and the corporate knowledge. They are all good things that must be integrated into the new organisation called Irish Water.

One point made is that it must be a public utility. The referendum will deal with that. There must be no mandatory changing of position from local government to anywhere else. I respect the engineers very much as well. I would use the word "idealism", a word we do not often hear. Many of the professionals and ordinary workers in Irish Water are totally committed. They have an awful lot to offer and we must not lose that. That is where I stand on this debate.

Reading the correspondence, I note that negotiations are ongoing and obviously, they will continue. There should be no forced change but I agree with the witnesses absolutely and will campaign with them on the Ervia issue because that is critical. We want a complete break there. Ultimately, however, I think that the net benefit of Irish Water completely outweighs the old way pursued by the county councils. It just was not working and was not cost-effective. The cost of a cubic metre of water in Kildare was half the cost in Wicklow. In other words, a business using water commercially in County Kildare as opposed to County Wicklow was paying twice the unit cost. It was not sustainable. We now have a uniform cost all over the country. That is very good for business and for inward investment.

I take the points made about the problem with the Vartry reservoir. The fact is that could happen today or it could happen tomorrow. It has not happened for more than 100 years but if and when it does, it will be absolutely catastrophic. The fissures are there in the rock and I have seen them myself. There is no alternative water supply and Dublin will have no water. That is why it is so important to proceed with the alternative supply to the greater Dublin area. Insofar as I can, I will be very much putting my voice behind what the witnesses are saying.

One other point is that one of the assessments made at the time examined the age profile of the workforce. I expect there to be significant voluntary - I stress voluntary - redundancies for people who might wish to take that up and who are probably over 55 or something like that. I did not see the data but perhaps the witnesses have. Given what is going on - I am not familiar with the nuts and bolts - it might be helpful if there was a significant voluntary package for people. At the time, we spoke about that option in principle.