Victor Boyhan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the ICTU and its 18 members. As long as I have been in the Houses I have never seen so many people from one group. I acknowledge their deep commitment to public service. I was first elected to a local authority in 1999 when I became a member of Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council so I know about and value the knowledge to which Mr. Hearn refers. He spoke about the commitment of engineers and their local knowledge, of which there is an awful lot. While much of it is not documented, there is a history there. A man could tell me where a repair was carried out ten years ago and point to a few skeletons in the cupboard. One cannot buy that sort of knowledge. I worked with ICTU members and I do not like anything that whiffs of a forced transfer of anyone's terms of employment without negotiation but I recognise that it can happen. If there is a logic for something to happen, it must be done through meaningful industrial relations, human resources procedures and negotiation.

It appears from what witnesses are saying, and I have read something similar, that much of this seems to have been hatched out and planned without them being fully aware of it. It also appears that local authority staff currently working for Irish Water may be subsumed into Ervia, although I understand some have returned to Irish Water. I am concerned about the speeding up of the process of terminating service level agreements. I was happy to hear the point about apprenticeships and I believe local authorities are best placed to organise them.

I do not like dealing with personalities but I have always found Gerry Grattan to be exceptionally helpful, both when I was a councillor and when he was here, which he has been on a number of occasions. There is a synergy now and I hear from engineers, management and local elected members that the process has bedded down, though it has taken a long time. It is key that it remains within the local authority. I note that witnesses have said they are happy to negotiate and come up with better options. Maybe there are better ways of doing things, even within their own structures.

I congratulate ICTU on producing a report that is concise, focused and to the point. I will try to be helpful without criticising ICTU. It should engage more with local councillors and get political. Unions were political years ago and, without passing judgment, I note that no Member of the Labour Party is here, although some will be following proceedings on the monitors. The unions were great at mobilising and their members served as community activists working on behalf of citizens. That role has become a little lost along the way and people are looking to the trade unions to assume it again. With local elections scheduled for May 2019, trade union representatives should start engaging with politicians and making their case. They are making their case here but I suggest they engage in more regular communication.

The first section of the report contains nine bullet points, which refer to active dialogue. It is important to keep this to the fore. It should not be a case of "my way or the highway" and we cannot have a predetermined outcome in meaningful negotiations.

Mr. Berney made that point really well, and I agree.

He also stated "The unions favour the continuation of the delivery of the public water service through local authorities". I agree with that but it needs to be reformed. It has not worked as well as it should. There need to be greater efficiencies. Maybe it could be done in a more regionally structured way. There has to be a better way, because the current system has not altogether worked and there were huge issues around delivery. However, I hear what the witnesses are saying and I think there is a need for that. If it is kept open and we talk about streamlining and professionalising it and getting a slicker operation, that is the way forward.

Mr. Berney continued by stating "The unions are open to considering any proposal ... to streamline or improve the efficiency of the current system." I think that is to be welcomed. They are also open to looking at other models, which may be available. I do not know what is best practice right across Europe but other models may exist there. As for the Irish Water proposals to establish a single water utility, I see the need to have a centralised policy and a vision, a master plan for the whole thing, but I also see the importance of ensuring that delivery can be rolled out and retained in local authorities. I am very supportive of that.

As for the proposed constitutional referendum, yes I am completely opposed to the total privatisation of Irish Water. A lot of politicians here are or at least they say they are and that is important. I will give a commitment to raise in Seanad Éireann this very day where we are regarding the Bill, whether the Minister is serious about bringing it forward and what the story is? I will check that out.

I am sympathetic. I am committed and am happy to meet the unions at some other stage as well. However, I encourage the witnesses to engage with all of the 950 sitting county councillors around the country. They are all part of networks with people in other political parties and ICTU will find many great allies there. I think it will lighten the unions' load and I wish them well with their work.