Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I agree with the previous speakers. Having been a member of a town council and a county council for a number of years, I see the benefit of a town council. I am frightened by what was said about all the duplication, the weakness in the system, the inconsistencies and, in particular, the funding. Town councils played a massive role in towns. The budget was the key. A comparison was made with municipal districts. Various issues can be highlighted at municipal district council meetings every month, as in town councils, but nothing gets passed unless it is approved at the county council meeting. Therefore, a decision by the nine officials at a district council meeting who are trying to make a decision for their town will not pass unless the approval of the rest of the councillors is received. I know from several municipal meetings that many decisions made have not been passed at county council level. When one is representing an area that is meant to be like a town council area, one has no power. Unless there is a budget to assist when representing the people of the town, one has no power. One can do absolutely nothing, only recommend. One is not sure one's recommendation will be passed. That is the biggest issue.

I acknowledge how hard councillors work. I worked as a councillor and see the work they do. Many of us here were councillors. To be honest, I do not believe councillors get paid enough. It is very hard to sit at a district council meeting when one knows the budget is gone. In my area, Carlow, we had a budget of nearly €14 million but it is totally gone. The block grants are gone. One must now go into a meeting with no budget trying to say footpaths need to be built and that the town centre needs to be promoted, for example. One cannot do these things anymore without a proper budget. The budget needs to be given back. Having no budget is why the municipal bodies are not doing the job they should. The councillors are doing their best. I do not blame them.

I asked Deputy Shane Cassells about this. When this was spoken about in the Dáil, there was agreement. The Deputies, Senators and councillors can see what is happening. When was the survey of the councillors carried out? We need to re-examine it. The new system is like everything else in that the outcome must be determined. In my area, Carlow, there is a population of nearly 27,000. This is a massive number of people to be looked after in a municipal district when there is no funding. It boils down to funding.

I was going to ask the question about the €30 million per annum. It was said this is the cost. This all boils down to money. Hundreds of councillors have been lost since 2014. We have lost many because of the new regime. In my area, for example, there were 21 sitting on the council and there are now 18. Three councillors were gone straightaway and we have no town council. We now have a municipal district with no budget.

I understand the statement that the regime is new and must be given a chance and that there were faults in the town councils. We all have to learn but a full service cannot be given to an area unless there is a budget. That is where we are definitely falling down. I am a firm believer in town councils and budgets.