Shane Cassells (Meath West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the members for allowing me to speak first. I extend a warm welcome to all the officials and thank them for the presentation. Its tone, as set out by Mr. Paul Lemass, although perhaps I am being unfair about this, makes a negative assessment of the reintroduction of a town councils system, if I am judging it right with respect to posing questions as to why its reintroduction should not happen, as against posing questions as to why it should happen. If we are setting out on that basis, there is no acknowledgment that the dissolution or abolition of town councils had a negative impact on towns from the Department's point of view.

As I pointed out to the committee earlier, prior to being elected to Dáil Éireann, I was a member of a town council for 17 years and of a county council for 12 years. Therefore, I know the value of having an effective town council system. I have acknowledged that not all councillors across the country worked effectively or delivered the best results but many of them did and those who were proactive and good councillors and good town managers wanted to see effective change, and they could do so because of the statutory budget and planning powers they had and were able to implement in a beneficial way.

I note Mr. Lemass's comment that the uncertainty associated with the possible introduction of town councils would herald this as being impossible. I remember dealing with a town manager ten years ago concerning a change-over in the town plan and he said we could not do that because we would confuse the people if we were to do that with a town plan at that stage. I told him the people were intelligent that it would not confuse them. We have to take the same approach here. I do not believe it is impossible to do this, far from it. If there is a will, there is a way, and if there is a passionate belief that we could reintroduce this system, we could do it for the 2019 local elections. I pointed out to the members of the committee before Mr. Lemass arrived that it was possible to abolish them in a very short period during the autumn of 2013 into January 2014.

In terms of this proposal being premature, I do not believe it is. The system we have in place is wrong. I do not believe the current structures require a full five years to bed down when after nearly four years, we can see that there are issues with them.

Regarding some of the questions Mr. Lemass posed with respect to reintroducing town councils, he mentioned operational efficiency. To take the example of town engineers, every town had a dedicated town engineer and the people in a town knew they were able to get problems solved by engineering staff based in the town hall. The engineering staff are now based across multiple municipal districts and, as a result, the town councils are suffering. If that is what the Department is calling operational efficiency, then it is a terrible mistake.

I completed one of the surveys, to which Mr. Lemass referred, when I was a councillor. If one asks any urban-based councillor about the current system, he or she will tell one about the deficiencies, in particular on the engineering side because of the way the staff have been spread over multiple districts. That does not demonstrate operational efficiency, rather it demonstrates a poor return for the people they are serving. Issues get missed and town centres suffer. Towns suffer from a lack of a town manager and town clerk because we now have a director of services and everything must be referred to a particular Department. There is no point of contact either for councillors or for members of the public, and that system is not operating well. If people were to talk to councillors, they would acknowledge that.

Mr. Lemass posed the question as to whether the reintroduction of the town councils system would represent the best use of resources? I believe it would be. He posed the question as to whether it would it be justifiable. I believe it would be. He also posed the question regarding its reintroduction leading to a reversing of rates harmonisation. He should talk to the businesses in these towns. The rates base for most town centres was lower than the county council rate. It comes back to earlier points made by Senator Boyhan, Deputy Ó Broin and others regarding the financial autonomy of towns. If businesses in a town were experiencing a hard year, the town council was able to react to what was happening in its town centre, liaise with the chamber of commerce and the local businesses and give those businesses a break in that particular year.

However, if one council is setting the rate for the entire county and that rate is across the board, an autonomous decision cannot be made because there is one rate for all. That was the benefit of having autonomous bodies that were able to make a call based on the best information. That goes to the point of the towns being underfunded to begin with. It has been a useful engagement this morning because we are addressing issues like that. I would welcome the opportunity to engage further.