Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

On 28 September we met the Health Information and Quality Authority, HIQA, to discuss its 2016 financial statements. At that meeting we discussed briefly management of conflicts of interest, and the committee was quite satisfied with the responses. However, an article appeared on 8 October 2017 in the Sunday Independent on a meeting attended by HIQA chairman, Mr. Brian McEnery, with members of Nursing Homes Ireland in October 2015. This has raised concerns for the committee, and the purpose of today's session is to clarify the extent, if any, to which there was a conflict of interest and whether HIQA governance standards are appropriate or sufficient to manage any such conflicts of interest.

We invited a representative of Nursing Homes Ireland to attend today's meeting voluntarily, but Nursing Homes Ireland declined the invitation stating it was unable to attend at this time. It has stated it will reconsider the request for a future date, and just before the witnesses came in we agreed to reissue the invitation to Mr. Tadhg Daly from Nursing Homes Ireland to attend at a mutually agreed time as soon as possible. We also invited representatives of the National Treatment Purchase Fund because we understand Mr. McEnery has advised members on the fund. It was unable to attend today because of another commitment.

From HIQA I welcome Mr. Brian McEnery, chairman, Mr. Phelim Quinn, chief executive officer, CEO, and Ms Mary Dunnion, director of regulation and chief inspector of social services. We are also joined by Mr. David Keating and Mr. Niall Redmond from the Department of Health. Members have received a document, which is a memorandum of the meeting referred to in the newspaper article mentioned earlier. Nursing Homes Ireland has stated it has not waived legal privilege over this document or the setting in which the meeting took place. As we have not had time to get our own legal advice on this I will insist that members do not refer to the document, which is a minute of that meeting prepared by Nursing Homes Ireland's legal adviser, which contains the heading that the document contains legal advice which is legally privileged. Members are free to discuss the opening statements and content of the meeting, but not reference the exact document mentioned because it is legally privileged. I do not want reference to that particular document, but the contents of the article in the Sunday Independent, which deals with the meeting and HIQA's attendance at it, is fully open for discussion here today.

I also want to put on record that because of the late receipt of the reply from Nursing Homes Ireland, which we received yesterday, we had expected it would be here today, so we have not had time to get full legal advice. In the meantime, as Chairman I am taking the cautious view, pending legal advice, not to refer to the document, which is legally privileged. HIQA had already submitted its statement, in which it refers in detail to the contents of that meeting. Through the secretariat, I sent word yesterday to HIQA not to include that aspect of its opening statement today because, as Chairman, without the benefit of legal advice I was taking the cautious view I do not want to trespass into that meeting where we have been informed by Nursing Homes Ireland that the minutes of the meeting are legally privileged. However, the committee had a detailed discussion in private session this morning, and I am quite happy to be guided by the committee that HIQA's original statement should be read into the record as it was originally intended, and my sending a message to HIQA was merely exercising a cautious approach pending legal advice. We are very happy for HIQA to discuss it and I apologise for any discommoding I caused yesterday evening by asking HIQA to shorten its statement. The committee is very happy, and I am happy to go along with the advice of the committee, for the full statement to be on the public record today.

I remind members, witnesses and those in the Public Gallery that all mobile phones should be switched off.

I advise the witnesses that by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. However, if they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and they continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

Members are reminded of the provisions of Standing Order 186 that the committee shall also refrain from inquiring into the merits of a policy or policies of the Government or a Minister of the Government or the merits of the objectives of such policies.

I believe Mr. Quinn will make a brief opening statement, followed by Mr. McEnery. The speakers have indicated in the following sequence: Deputies McDonald, MacSharry, Cullinane, Connolly and Catherine Murphy. I invite Mr. Quinn to make his opening statement.