Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I wish to follow up on some issues, which were also mentioned by Deputy Ó Snodaigh. The Minister of State, Deputy Kehoe, has repeatedly stated that the loss of highly skilled personnel is as a result of their skills being much sought after in the private sector. I believe the Taoiseach also referred to that recently. I know from my interaction with members of the Permanent Defence Force at local level that morale is low. Unfortunately that is a key ingredient in losing people. Based on the timetables of some personnel that I have seen, the work-life balance is not sustainable. Some personnel have excessive duties. Whenever the issue of the 9,500 that are needed and that are not there at the moment is raised in the Dáil or elsewhere with the Minister of State, Deputy Kehoe, he continually refers to the huge numbers seeking to join the Permanent Defence Force. I understand that very large numbers are applying online to join. There are sequential tests in process in the recruitment campaign. By the final stage of recruitment the numbers vary very significantly from the numbers that initially applied.

The submission by the Department of Defence to the Public Service Pay Commission mentioned retention issues; I believe the Department badly needs a retention policy. The Permanent Defence Force has key highly trained specialists whose skill sets were hard earned at considerable cost. The State is losing those people. We need a policy to retain those people. It is not just the attraction of the private sector. In many instances the private sector may not have all the great benefits we hear about times. The public service is also a good employer overall. Morale is very low in the Permanent Defence Force.

As other members will have heard me say often, we are all very influenced by where we come from. I have the privilege of representing a constituency comprising two south Ulster counties where we had a long Army tradition until, unfortunately, Dún Uí Néill Barracks was closed a number of years ago. We will not go back on that, but it was a terrible decision. We no longer have an Army barracks between Finner in south Donegal and Frank Aiken Barracks in Dundalk. Unfortunately the Border narrative is coming back again in our country. I had thought that had been removed from our psychology after 1998. As a person who lives in a Border community and has the privilege of representing two Border counties, we need to factor in that border controls may again be imposed on our island - although we sincerely hope that will not happen.

We badly need a retention policy to retain those highly skilled, competent and dedicated people. Deputy Ó Snodaigh and others referred to the concerns everybody has over the Air Corps personnel. Unfortunately, we had the terrible tragedy of the loss of Rescue 116 off the Erris coast. We discussed that matter with the Minister of State, Deputy Kehoe, during oral questions in the Dáil.

The Department of Defence's capital review refers to €28 million transferred from pay to capital. The Minister of State will claim that the number of personnel is at approximately 9,500; I understand it is at 9,000. Are we being given the true figures for the number of people who may be doing further training, people who may be seconded or people who may be out on sick leave? At any time how many are available to carry out their duties?

I put the following point to the Secretary General and it should be put to the Minister of State and the Government. Why should €28 million be transferred from pay to capital? We have an inadequate number in the Permanent Defence Force and obviously the pay and conditions are not satisfactory. That €28 million was used on new ships for the Naval Service. None of us disagrees with upgrading the fleet. We all appreciate the good work being done by Naval Service personnel in the Mediterranean. On numerous occasions members of the committee have paid tribute to the personnel. We take pride in the fact that Irish people were able to rescue people in the most terrible circumstances.

We cannot justify the transfer of €28 million from pay to capital. If the Government decides on a capital programme for fleet replacement, it is up to the Departments of Public Expenditure and Reform, and Defence to fund it and not to rob the payroll budget. Based on my interaction at local level with serving of the Permanent Defence Force and also with retired members, who still take great pride in our Defence Forces, I would say that morale is very low and it needs to be improved. I hope that the robbing of the payroll budget will not recur.