Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I congratulate Dr. Shannon on the report. It is a template for how reports should be produced for the State. He set out his methodology and what he was asked to do. Most importantly he set out 72 examples of how section 12 comes into effect and how gardaí are asked to exercise their power in this respect. He also set out conclusions and recommendations. I want to repeat what the Chairman and Deputy Daly said about section 12. When one thinks about it, it is an extraordinary power. When we put somebody through Templemore, he or she is out very quickly and we then give that person the power to take a child away from a parent. I agree with what Dr. Shannon has said. It is an astonishing power. I think he will agree that it is a power that the State must have because of the examples he has set out in his report.

What Dr. Shannon has said about gardaí doing an excellent job in exceptionally difficult circumstances is important. Many of the examples he has set out are of situations in which it would not be that difficult to make one's mind up, for example a situation where a garda comes to a house and sees a child in a destitute condition while the parents are nowhere to be seen, so the garda has to exercise section 12. There must be examples, however, which are more borderline. I would be interested to hear of those borderline examples in due course. The problem in that situation is that if a garda gets it wrong and something subsequently happens to the child, the State turns around and criticises that garda. Does Dr. Shannon think that anything more needs to be done to give such gardaí more encouragement to know that they should not be too hesitant about exercising section 12? Of course, at the same time, one does not want them overdoing it. That is the first issue I would like Dr. Shannon to consider.

Second, this report obviously arose from a request from the Ombudsman for Children arising from case of the Roma child. Dr. Shannon mentioned in his report - and I think it is good news - that there is no evidence of racial profiling in respect of section 12, but he also went on to say that there would be a benefit in recording ethnocultural information on the PULSE system. I am interested to know why he thinks that is important. Has he derived ethnocultural information from the PULSE system? Is it partly to do with people of different cultures who have come here and have different attitudes as to how children should be reared or looked after?

I note that Dr. Shannon sets out the specific details to be recorded on the PULSE system in appendix 6. That is helpful. Rather than the report simply saying that information needs to be put in he has said exactly what needs to be done. Is he satisfied that all of that information is necessary? What is the benefit of it? I want to probe that a bit because gardaí are obviously putting a lot of information on PULSE. They could spend their day sitting around and putting information on PULSE. What is the benefit of it? What is it used for? Is Dr. Shannon telling us that if that information was on PULSE we would have much more information in respect of the exercise of section 12 and that would be to the long-term benefit of being able to deal with it as an issue?

Finally, I will echo what Dr. Shannon and others have said. He talks about the consistency with which he has seen alcohol abuse being a problem in the reports he has written. Every time this committee deals with issues such as domestic abuse, mental health or violence in the street, alcohol and drug abuse come up as enormous contributors. People who are perfectly placid, normal people get into problems and difficulties because of alcohol and drug abuse. That is a much bigger question which we will have to deal with, but does Dr. Shannon believe that there is anything further we should be doing as a State to warn people about the dangers of alcohol and drug abuse?