Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Tuesday, 20 June 2017

Public Accounts Committee

2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)

9:00 am

Photo of Marc MacSharryMarc MacSharry (Sligo-Leitrim, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I will talk for a minute, which will give the Commissioner another chance to read it.

As I said, I did not see this document. I got wind that there may be a document in relation to charitable status. I asked for it and this was produced. Is that okay?

I will read into the record the cover note, dated 13 June 2017, that was sent by John Barrett to the chief administrative officer. Notwithstanding the fact that the CAO has said that he did not see it until yesterday, 19 June, his office date stamped it 14 June so somebody read it in his office to the extent that he or she stamped it. If he is away or otherwise engaged, I am sure somebody is delegated with the responsibility in his office that if something is important, it should be passed up the line. The Commissioner can clarify the matter.

The cover note states:

I refer to a hand delivered document in an Oireachtas envelope which arrived at the gate this morning.

I have no idea of its provenance.

It was collected by Mr. Paul Flood from my office and this is a copy of the contents which you may wish to note.

I would respectfully suggest that you draw the attention of all the various correspondents to the document and provide them with copies as a matter of courtesy.

Further it seems to me that the Public Accounts Committee may have an interest in the content and I would again respectfully suggest that this be brought to the attention of the PAC immediately.

Let the record show that it was not brought to our attention; we brought it to our own attention.

Moving on, there is one specific small email that follows on from correspondence between PwC and Mr. Culhane, in 2010, in terms of matters of taxation and all of the issues before us here today. He, in turn, was obviously corresponding or in contact with Eugene Banks of the Garda division in the Department of Justice and Equality. I am extremely troubled by one of the emails dated 5 July 2010 that was sent at 17.26. It seems to be a response to Eugene Banks, in the Garda division, who inquired whether there had been any developments on the matters raised below, in particular, the relationship between the college and the companies and the legal entity of the college itself. Mr. Culhane responded:

Eugene

There have been no further developments. To muddy things up, I included charitable status for the College in the letter to the Revenue dated 28thMay but as you can see it was not included in their response.

We do not have the response. I wish to refer to the phrase "to muddy things up" in the context of all the evidence we have received so far - the conflicting evidence from certain parties. For a finance director to use the phrase "to muddy things up" in the context of any correspondence with the Revenue Commissioners and inform Eugene Banks from the Department of Justice and Equality seems to suggest an awful lot, Commissioner. I take her word that she has seen this document for the first time in recent minutes. What is her response to such language?

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