Shane Cassells (Meath West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

In terms of these interpersonal issues, and the super toxic atmosphere, I think it is more sinister. There is the issue of the uncovering of practices. On the last occasion I asked Mr. Kelly whether these practices were wilful misappropriation or incompetence. Mr. Kelly said it was coming down on the scale of incompetence rather than wilful misappropriation. However, I probed him further on the practices that were uncovered and on the concerted effort to thwart the truths that were coming to light, a point that was scratched on a while ago. I think that is as serious as it gets in terms of the issues at play.

In terms of people's interpretation of whether this was wilful misappropriation of funds or just sheer incompetence, if there was a concerted effort to thwart Mr. Kelly in his work on the matter, that brings a whole new dimension. I put that question to Mr. Kelly and he said: "I think there is sufficient evidence before this committee to say that the Office of the Director of Finance, or in the past the Office of the Deputy Commissioner of Strategy and Change Management did not forward information to me." The college itself did not forward information to internal audit. That is a pretty damning situation.