Shane Cassells (Meath West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Vice Chairman and welcome the Commissioner and her team here this afternoon. At the outset, let us look at the exploration of the questioning that has been happening over a series of these meetings relating to Templemore and its importance to public discourse. In the complexities of some of the questions that are being thrown at the Commissioner, that and why this probing is happening is sometimes lost. Specifically, I think it is best encapsulated by the document, "A Critical Inflection Point" which she referenced earlier and was written on 29 September 2015.

Mr. Barrett, when writing to the CAO, expressed his concern about the scale and amount of co-mingled moneys at Templemore - some €12 million over ten years and a total of €2.3 million in investment accounts at its peak - and the confirmation that no refund was made at year-end from the surpluses generated. This is a point to which Mr. Kelly referred in his presentation to the committee when he said Deputy Commissioner Rice stated in a note in 2009 "I strongly believe that any surplus money does not belong to the State but rather is owned by the members of AGS". He pointed out that this had occurred since the position of Accounting Officer had been bestowed on the holder of the office of Commissioner in 2005. This is the crucial point in years when An Garda Síochána needed a substantial Supplementary Estimate from the Exchequer. We are not just interested in exploring bad processes here because this had a direct impact on the taxpayer. This was effectively a bailout. Substantial surpluses were being generated yet, as pointed out in "A Critical Inflection Point", this was at a time when Supplementary Estimates were needed as well. The Commissioner mentioned her 36 years on the force. While she was not Commissioner at the time in question, can Ms O'Sullivan explain how these belief systems came into being such that people were of the view that surpluses generated did not belong to the State but rather to members of An Garda Síochána at a time when Supplementary Estimates from the taxpayer were required?